Days of Wonder Using Kickstarter for Small World 2

Sagrilarus wrote: Can't read your link without registering.

So ironic, considering you started this thread.

But, hey, you're the expert. No need to actually try something before passing judgment ...

TheDukester wrote:

Sagrilarus wrote: Can't read your link without registering.

So ironic, considering you started this thread.

But, hey, you're the expert. No need to actually try something before passing judgment ...

This snarky response is odd given you have linked to a forum which is not Days of Wonder or Kickstarter, so Sag is right not to want to register.

TheDukester wrote:

Sagrilarus wrote: Can't read your link without registering.

So ironic, considering you started this thread.

But, hey, you're the expert. No need to actually try something before passing judgment ...

Why so angry lately, Duke? Everything OK with you brother? It's not usual for you to get your hackles raised.

I say kudos to DoW. I don't care about Small World in any form, but I think they did the right thing by discontinuing this. It would have been a bit underhanded to Kickstart an iOS version they were already doing. Hopefully, the people who want it on those other platforms will support a KS campaign and get what they want.

TheDukester wrote: But, hey, you're the expert. No need to actually try something before passing judgment ...

I just wanted to let you know that most of us weren't going to be able to read what you were linking to.

S.

I’ve probably read every KS related post on this site over the past year (I’m one hellova lurker). I got mentioned a few pages back, so I figured, what the hell, I’ll offer a pro KS point of view from a KS user. I’m gonna be tossing myself out on a limb here, but hopefully that limb isn’t misconstrued as a crucifix; I’m not martyr, and I hope to never be portrayed as one.

To address the original question regarding Small Box Games, I really don’t know why we get a “pass” from some people at this site, in regards to our use of Kickstarter. It could be that I’m a fairly tolerable guy, it could be that we make decent games, it could be that we’ve been using a Kickstarter-style approach to selling our games for 5 years, it could be that regardless of our limited success, we’re still the “little guys.” It could be a combination of those things, or it might be something totally different, and I honestly don’t know. But what I do know is that every time we release a game, we’re nervous as hell to get those initial reviews, those first ratings, and that initial feedback from customers, reviewers, and gamers. I feel like the only thing we have in this industry is our reputation for making good and/or unique card games. This reputation keeps us going year after year, game after game. A large chunk of the Clowdus’ livelihood rests on the notion that people will enjoy the games they purchase (or in this case, back) from us, and will return to us in the future. At this point, if we lose Small Box Games, we go hungry.

But, back to Kickstarter, and starting with SJG and the OGRE thing. I think Kickstarter is the absolute best way they could have gone about doing a game like this. I’m not at all familiar with the project, aside from its closing numbers, and even less familiar with the game itself, but from what I’ve discovered, I’m willing to bet SJS has been sitting on re-releasing OGRE for a while.

Let’s forget, for just a moment, that OGRE is a niche, 30 year old 2 player war game that probably would have never garnered the support of a 5,000 unit print run in this era dominated by non-confrontational 3-6 player worker placement and resource management games. Look at it this way, SJG *could* have done a preorder, or P500 style preorder, or whatever, for the new edition of OGRE, and just included the base game at a reasonable price. Inevitably, people would have complained that XYZ unit, scenario, map, or whatthehellever GEV wasn’t included in the new edition, regardless of the amount it would have increased the price. Or, SJG could have included everything they have ever made for OGRE in a single package, and people would have bitched about the price. It’s a total lose-lose for SJG if they go a more traditional route with this pet project of theirs. “You know you can't please all the people all the time, and last night, all of those people were at my show.” – Mitch Headberg

Instead, they offer it up on Kickstarter, and through demand, are able to offer pretty close to a perfect version of the game, based on the number of people that expressed real interest in a reprinting of the game, and the excessive backing they received allowed them to include almost (maybe all?) of the additional content for this game.

Flash forward 20 years. If Blue Balls Publishing acquires the rights to Heroscape, I fully expect them to take their license to the Kickstarter of 2033, as this is really the only feasible way the company has a way of gauging the demand for a rerelease of Heroscape. Regardless of their size, this system has the most impact as to what the “fans” want to see out of a rerelease of game with a dozen expansions.

If FFG thinks there’s a market for a Kingdom Hearts/Disney version of Decent, I *want* them to use Kickstarter. Sure, I realize FFG has a cashflow from successful releases, but it’s also a small company, and a colossal mistake like printing a Disney version of Decent, without fully realizing their market, would certainly set them back significantly (aside from the actual printing, art and sculpting would certainly put a major dent in their bottom line). Regardless of what we think, they aren’t Hasbro. If Hasbro wants to do a Disney version of Monopoly, they do that shit, because they KNOW that they’ll be able to sell enough to the mass market retail stores to at least break even. It’s Disney, it’s Wal-Mart, and it’s Monopoly.

We are, as hobby gamers, invested in a hobby where, domestically (regardless of the country): if a company sells 2,000 copies of a game in its initial print run, it’s considered a success. If it sells 5,000 copies, it’s considered a smash hit. If it sells in the 5 digits, it’s on its course to becoming a staple/classic.

I think a lot of gamers either lose focus of this or don’t have a clue. By most industry standards, the board game industry is not a successful industry when you calculate overhead and production costs versus end product revenue.

I also think an ass ton of other shit, but in fear of being tl;dr, I’m stopping here.

ubarose wrote:

smallboxgames wrote: I feel like the only thing we have in this industry is our reputation...

I think this is why you get a pass. It's a trust thing.

Exactly. It's the same thing I've argued with P500 for years. It comes down to faith in the person on the other end of the wire. You're making a gentleman's agreement, and the only way that proceeds is if you have faith that the person providing the other half of the arrangement is honorable enough to do all he (or she) can to make you whole. Kickstarter tips the scale in favor of the producer due to the timing of the billing, but other than that it's really just a go-between in the transaction. This has been business as usual in gaming for years now.

S.