Gaming and Addiction

Sometimes the praise and feel of belonging from a gaming group can be very addictive. I know a guy who buy a lot of stuff in shop just because everytime he makes a (often big) purchase, the crowd playing games would cheer for him. He rarely plays.

I mean, the gaming loser may not fulfill a lot of people's living standard, but in his group he's the champion. Same as addicted MMORPG players. It's hard to get back to a problematic real life after this.

metalface13 wrote: If you have any other hobbies you know how much prattle hobbyists do about their hobby. The internet is full of it. I also like collecting LEGO (though I don't really buy much anymore) and fansites and forums are full of set reviews, set previews, new info and leaked photos of sets, people buying/selling/trading sets, photos of people's creations, contest to see who can build the best whatsit, etc.

I also follow soccer and that's a huge rabbit hole of it's own. Follow your team, follow your national team, transfer rumors, tactical formation analysis, up and coming youth prospects, who are the shining stars you'd like your team to acquire, etc. And if you play the FIFA or Football Manager video games, whew. There's a lot more to putz around with right there. Sometimes I'd fire up Football Manager just to peek around at player attributes and learn player history, etc.

I dont know how it is over there, but noone over here who is a fan of "soccer" (I'll indulge you) prattles about it WITHOUT watching it, or playing it, or both. Thats my point. Its not the prattling. The prattling I get. Its the ratio of prattling to the doing of the hobby, even if the hobby is watching someone else do something. No "soccer" fans prattle on the internet about how they organize their collection of international club socks, but then does not spend WAY MORE TIME actually watching football in person or on the telly. It does not happen. This is what I think is out of whack with boardgaming, maybe there are other hobbies, but it feels like its much more overt in the online communities (especially the big one) that a huge amount of time and effort goes into stuff thats nothing to do with actually playing games - which is what theyre for, theyre not really designed as collectible items, or to have custom storage inserts argued about, or pimped with hand sewn cloth bags, or discussed and argued about by people who have never even played them. There arent gigantic video game online communities where people blather about the stuff thats not PLAYING THE VIDEO games such that this blather is way more than the playing. And not so that so much effort goes into hand sewing custom DVD covers to make your copies of FIFA and MODERN WARFARE "pimped".

Boardgamers may be more prone to prattling because it's harder to indulge in the hobby without other available participants.

Bull Nakano wrote: Gaming can be addictive. Tabletop gaming? I'm not sure. I lean toward could be but would have to be an extreme case. The reason being it's not the easiest thing to game. You have to get people together, or go somewhere you know they'll be. For Magic and Warhammer, this isn't very hard, but 'board gaming' would be tougher.

As I think someone else put it, I think what we see more often in this hobby is an addiction or obsession with game *collecting* more than actual gaming. I don't think I'm an addict, per say, but I certainly still struggle with my need to pick up titles I will likely not play in the foreseeable future.

I found this topic interesting due to my own struggles in this area. This weekend I was talking to my wife and I coined a term for myself: "Halfsperger". When we first met she thought I suffered from Asperger Syndrome, but decided otherwise after spending more time with me. Lately we've been researching AS for my son, as it looks like he may suffer from it, and were going over the criteria. I basically fit the obsessive parts, the rigid thinking, black and white, and whatnot. But I'm not socially awkward (well, not *that* awkward) and I'm generally well adjusted.

I've noticed for much of my adult life, and it's become increasingly focused lately, that I always suffer from some sets of obsessions. These days they are usually limited to computer games, board games, and guns. Guns are by far the most expensive hobby here (by at least an order of magnitude), so board games and computer games are relatively benign from a cost standpoint. It doesn't help that I'm well off financially and can participate in "retail therapy" without too much worry other than buyers remorse and stacks of unplayed games on my shelves/Steam account. But, like most married adults with younger kids, I have very little free time. I make up for this by simply not sleeping much (sleep is boring) and staying up late to either participate in my obsession (computer games) or just research them (guns and board games, as these are things that you really can't do in the middle of the night by yourself). These activities are also my way of escapism from the stress of life (which is never in short supply) and if I don't make time for it, I usually end in a sort of mini-breakdown.

What I've found most interesting is that I don't have time or focus for all of my obsessions, so they tend to rotate based on what's interesting to me at the time. You can see that with my participation on this site. I tend to log on and follow things for a few weeks, then I drop off for months at a time (or, hell, most of last year). I simply don't have the time or focus to keep up with this site and the other things that grab my attention. It's all a matter of my brain's priority scheme at that point in time.

I like to think my obsessions don't fall into the addiction category, but sometimes I run close to line. I try to be honest with my self and aware of my habits. I was once really into WoW, where I was probably spending 30-40 hours a week playing the game (on top of my normal 40-45 hour work week). I was married, and the only reason it worked out was that she played more than me. There are times that I really miss all that, WoW was a very engaging experience and I have very fond memories of Raiding (and obsessively collecting gear). But that obviously isn't the healthiest way to live or have a relationship, especially after my son was born. I've since been divorced and re-married (the irony is that marriage was probably *prolonged* due to WoW, not the other way around). My coworkers are trying to start up WoW Raiding again, and my response is that I would prefer to not get another divorce, as my current wife would in no way ever put up with even one night dedicated to it. And quite frankly, my WoW addiction is one of those things I may not be able to effectively control, so I find it best to simply avoid it. But the siren still calls...

I really wish I could game more, but the realities of my home life and social situation is such that I take what I can get. I do get depressed about it sometimes, but I try to keep things in perspective. So I substitue my lack of real game time by reading all that board game prattle and trying to contribute to it as little as possible. That of course leads to more "retail therapy" and here we are...

These stories about unambitious boardgamers are unfortunate, but as others here have already pointed out, I think the internet facilitates more pernicious time wasting than actually playing games.

Speaking only for myself, I think this has to do with self-deception and the ease with which I can justify my time online. I play very few videogames because it feels like I'm wasting time in virtual space, whereas when I'm reading about hobbies grounded in the physical world (e.g. boardgames, woodworking, gardening) I feel like I'm accomplishing something. This is mostly bullshit, of course, because only 10% or so of this time will actually inform the way in which I engage in my hobbies. The rest of the time is something akin to digital daydreaming about what I might play, or build, or buy.

We all know that internet is insidious because of the ease with which we slip into it. It does not require other people or scheduled time. But what's worse for me is that because it is a solitary activity with no accountability, I only have to justify it to myself in some cursory, semiconscious way.

None of this is meant to diminish addiction to physical boardgames, but at least for me that specter is less frightening. Being a boardgame addict is impossible for most of us, given our time-constraints and responsibilities and wasting time on the internet won't derail our lives in the way that it has some of these other fellows (Shellhead, I haven't pooped myself yet). Nevertheless, I resent the part of myself that is complicit in frivolous internet escapism, even if it's driven by a desire to engage in more creative and social pursuits.

My apologies if this came off like a confessional AA story, but it's something that's been on my mind lately and many of your stories resonated with me in some way. Needless to say, I still find value in returning to this forum and hearing what the Fortress has to say about the latest kickstarter scandal, nerd movie, or overproduced and under-playtested cardboard trainwreck. Just wasting time is OK sometimes and is often enjoyable, but I'm at least trying to be more cognizant as to whether I'm really learning something or just fooling myself into thinking I am.

It's interesting that this topic shows up now. I can sympathize with cdennett because I've been in the same situation a number of times. When I start something, I tend to jump in with both feet and it consumes my life for a while. I was a hardcore Magic freak for a number of years until my ex- finally put her foot down. I built the Green Party in Michigan from the ground up and led it for five years, which also contributed to the fact that she's now my ex-. I picked up 40K and other GW games when I gave up Magic and spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours painting, theorycrafting, and playing. I picked up aikido and trained six days a week for years. When I finally got away from GW for the most part, I discovered boardgamegeek and dove headfirst into boardgames, which eventually brought me here. In between, I was a hardcore WoW raider for a while (I currently have 7 toons at 90 or above.)

The couple positive sides are that I've maintained a full-time job, a marriage and other relationships, and various friendships while I've been pursuing many of these and other interests (reading, writing (fiction and non-), huge music and film fan, etc.), often simultaneously. But like White mentioned earlier: I can't speak any other languages. I don't play an instrument. I haven't traveled as much as I'd like to. Those seem to be the things that make one's life richer, at least in the traditional sense.

Now, don't get me wrong. I LOVE games and I've enjoyed all of my time engaging in them. But I was talking with a friend recently and mentioned that I'd kind of burned out on Hearthstone while I was playing the beta and I hadn't played as much as others and so wasn't nearly as good at the game as I'd like to be. He said the same thing, but then he mentioned that he often assessed his time and had come to the conclusion that time spent becoming an expert at some game is a lot of time that he could be spending improving himself or creating something (he's an engineer who's starting a domestic drone business) so he'd learned to limit his gaming time so that other parts of his life could take precedence.

That kind of took root because I've not only collected a ton of GW stuff, but also boardgames and have 30,000 comics sitting in a storage space. I have a wall full of movies that I've seen and several walls full of books that I've read and I basically never touch them. I realized that I have a lot of it just to have it when I could be doing something else with that money and time (aside from the whole reading thing, I guess.) And, admittedly, that hesitancy is at least partially driven by the fact that I rarely have opportunity to play games with others, which is the whole point, IMO.

So, I've been making a change in the past couple weeks. I played the hell out of Warlords of Draenor when it first dropped but I'm done now; subscription canceled. I'm going to finish selling off all of my GW stuff. I'm going to start selling my massive pile of boardgames, most of which never get played. Comics, too. Then I'm going to use that money to go somewhere and see new things. My girlfriend just challenged me to get a diving cert so we could dive together at one of the hammerhead gathering points near Costa Rica. It'll take some time, but I feel like it will be better spent than hoping to play Kemet at some point.

I mean, you do what you do, right? As long as you're not harming someone else, do what makes you happy. If that means playing RPGs and boardgames non-stop, then have at it. There's nothing wrong with that, even if you do so to the exclusion of what many of the rest of us consider "life". But I think I've run my course on games. The urge is still there. I'm still totally geeked about 3 or 4 Hearthstone decks and Scum & Villainy coming out soon and new units for Battlelore and... But I think it's time to shift moreso into the half-dozen other interests or pick up something new.

This thread helped me understand the collecting part of the hobby better. Most people can only get in so much boardgaming, due to lack of available players, especially during the workweek. But there is no such limitation when it comes to the collecting of boardgames. You could endlessly read or watch reviews of various games and then seek out the best deals on those games online.

Is it bad that I don't have any desire to learn to play an instrument? And why is playing an instrument better than being able to paint minis? They're both artistic. One just happens to be more nerdy. I wish I was good at painting minis, not necessarily because I want to paint minis because I imagine it would mean I had a steadier hand and therefor would be better at hand lettering and calligraphy, two things I would really like to learn and are some marketable skills for a graphic designer.

Back to Shellhead's original anecdotes, I think we've all met some gamers like that, or at least seen them in the game store. Gaming really seems to attract people seeking to escape who they are, and rpgs especially are really good at allowing people to escape their realities.

This reminds me of an awesome BGG thread from a few years ago where some guy totally flipped out at everyone saying of course music was more important and valuable than gaming, and playing an instrument was loads better than playing games, and almost an entire legion of nerds piled onto him with gay abandon, even though by the time they'd finished "arguing" they'd only made his point for him.

At this point in time, I think I'd pick being a wizard minis painter than a guitar player if I could magically choose. Its probably cheaper and takes less time for the guitar though!

metalface13 wrote: Is it bad that I don't have any desire to learn to play an instrument? And why is playing an instrument better than being able to paint minis? They're both artistic. One just happens to be more nerdy.

As discussed in the past, it's not that one is better than the other, but in wanting to learn something new.

In my case, I've been able to paint minis for decades. In all that time, I've also felt it would be cool to play an instrument. Painting minis (and other game related pursuits) have taken time that could have been spent learning to play music.

I'd like 40 year old Mr. White to have a few more tricks than 20 year old Mr. White.

On a personal note, when I do strum a few chords at home my 4 year old daughter will either dance or make up a song to sing. It's beautiful. I'd love to be able to offer her real music.

Edit: I went on way longer than I thought I would... oh well.

Does it matter?

metalface13 wrote: Is it bad that I don't have any desire to learn to play an instrument? And why is playing an instrument better than being able to paint minis? They're both artistic. One just happens to be more nerdy.

That's a great question and one we all have to answer for ourselves. Is music, as an art form, more or less valuable to us as a species than the painting of miniatures?

I do agree with Jeff that it's more about variety, we can (and in my opinion should) try to expand what we know and who we are. I think I have more to offer my friends and family by learning about different topics but I even believe that some pursuits are inherently more valuable to us as a species than others.

Which is controversial to many people. But I like to start with extreme's and work backwards from that.

So, is being good at writing ads for sex toys in Hustler as important to us as a species as being a virtuoso doctor?

What about pimping vs. child care?

Not all skills are equal and this idea that has permeated modern culture that it's all just opinion.. I think is very dangerous. Now these are extreme examples. Obviously, but that's what my brain goes to first.

I think there is room for some subjective evaluation there, certainly you may think that painting miniatures is equally (or even more) valuable to us as a species than musical ability is. I would argue that, I doubt it's true. I think the benefits of music apply to a much larger percentage of the population and I think it serves a very important purpose but I wouldn't begrudge the choice of going the other way.

The thing is, how much better are you getting? Is there room to learn more? Does learning more make you better? For yourself? For your family? What's the goal here?

These are all questions we have to answer for ourselves and I know that for me personally I do feel there is a difference. I know that if I spend all night playing video games I'll have a good time.. if I spend that night recording a song I'll have a good time. But I also know that five years from now that night of video games will be gone and yet the song... I will remember for years to come and play for other people (or even just myself) I know that in the long term I will get more value from it than I did from the night spent playing video games.

The reason people want to make the argument that there is no difference in the inherent value of any one task over any other is that they are afraid to be seen as being judgmental of others. That's a legitimate fear because other people will get defensive and think you're an arrogant so and so (or even a bigot in today's parlance). They'll ask you to prove that this skill is better than that skill and so on. But I think that inside somewhere we all know that there is a difference of some kind, we just have a hard time quantifying it. The metric for judging these things is unclear and murky at best. But we can see the extreme's and we can even see the little things some times.. at least for ourselves and we have to follow that as best we can.

Should you spend less time painting miniatures and learn to read music, or speak another language, or volunteer time at the shelter downtown? Only you can know the answer to that but I suspect that you know that painting miniatures, while a good hobby with real benefits, should not be the end of your free time pursuits. I suspect that we all know this. We should spend some time during our lives intentionally leaving our comfort zone.

It's not about being better as a person so you can look around you and show people how cool you are, it's about having respect for your fellow man and ensuring that when you are engaging with people that you are as prepared as possible to show some interest in what it is that they do with their time. Our society, as a whole, will be stronger if we spend less time in our shells and take the time to get to know and understand others a little better. Having a larger set of skills is key in that pursuit. Being less of a specialist and more of a Renaissance man helps us to get to know others better. It helps society to get along a little better as a result. When we alienate ourselves from our fellow man we create problems.

Is gaming addictive for me? No, not really, only the consumerist side of it is and I think I've beaten that addiction now. I have addictions that I suffer from, gaming is not one of them. Addictions I do suffer from? Laziness, consumerism (not in games now but other areas), smoking, beer (not at home or around my family but once I'm out... it's hard to hold off) and probably masturbation. There may be others too and I've had various degrees of success in defeating these during different times in my life. Right now I have most of it under control, but everything like this is a day to day issue and I have to stay very aware of who I am.

that was a very nicely thought out post, though I think you could have just as well gone with "music is a bazillion times more important in every way than painting minis will ever be" and saved on your RSI in the wrist.

Still, that doesnt affect whether or not you want to spend your time doing one or the other, I think you made an incisive point - almost. "No one wants to seen to be judgemental", actually I think you came from the wrong direction, people inherently do not want to say "what I do is basically fucking stupid and pointless but I like it anyway".

I as an overgrown child who can take nothing seriously and laugh at the bizarre comedy of what we call "existence" however have at least the positive side of being able to freely admit and own up to very much "doing shit thats fucking stupid and pointless" and I never feel the need to reflexively defend myself. Rather I quite enjoy emphasizing the complete nonsense of everything as often as possible. Painting toys is fucking stupid, but I still kind of wish I could do it well.

I think to a lesser extent it affects lots of discussions too, as many people tie up the concept of their own self worth and value with the subject of the discussion. Just cos I think painting minis is essentially a waste of time for a grown adult, but I can see why people enjoy it and I wish I could do it, doesnt in any way mean I am judging a person who thinks otherwise, or who doesnt think its stupid. Just like if you hate a game or love a game and I don't agree with you at all, it doesnt reflect one iota how I judge or think about you as a person, no matter how much I frame the discussion in nonsense or potty language. One of the problems on "other sites" is "discussion" just ends up with one group saying one thing and its either backed by the mob "YAYYYYY" or not "BOOOOO" and then it develops into both sides almost taking it personally to show they are "right". Like they cannot separate yet more pointless waste of time arguing (which can still be fun for what it is, just look at some of the shit I post) with some kind of cock comparison as a human being. Just stupid innit.

bomber wrote: "what I do is basically fucking stupid and pointless but I like it anyway".

"No I ain't doing much. Doing nothing means a lot to me." - Bon Scott

JonJacob wrote: We should spend some time during our lives intentionally leaving our comfort zone.

This, this, one million times this. I think I've overcome a lot of my personality limitiations but pushing myself to do things that were far outside of my comfort zone. It's actually something that I find myself coaching my wife (who took a long to realize that she was way more introverted than me, even though she went out and was more "social" on a regular basis) to do on a regular basis. Having said that, it's also important to understand who you are, and that there are likely some things about yourself that aren't going to change (my first marriage taught me this).

While we're in F:AT Confessionals, this reminded me of college. I was a nerd in High School, 6'1" 125 pounds, glasses, finished 4th academically out of a class of 630, played Dungeons and Dragons, some tennis, and was in choir. But when I went to college, I got involved with Aggie Bonfire. For those of you not from Texas, you probably only know about it due to it falling and killing some students, but this was a huge, student run, redneck activity with its roots in military tradition. This was pretty far out of my comfort zone. Really though, I just showed up to Cut and Stack, and didn't really hang out with the group spocially, retreating to studies and computer games. Well, due to lack of candidates, I was asked to be a Crew Chief for my dorm and, for some reason, I decided to say yes. This was taking a giant leap out of my comfort zone. I had no fucking clue what I was getting into. Binge drinking, hazing, and most of my free time for the next year. But I made a lot of great friends that I wouldn't have made otherwise and some outstanding memories. It changed me, mostly for the better, giving me a lot of leadership experience and the nuts to make the tough choices. I'm still much the same nerd as before, but it helped me grow in some new directions that I tap into from time to time.

Though, is it sad that I have no interest in learning an instrument? Honestly, learning to paint minis has been on my list of things to do, and I've never done it...so you guys can feel good about that.

Jackwraith wrote: My girlfriend just challenged me to get a diving cert so we could dive together at one of the hammerhead gathering points near Costa Rica. It'll take some time, but I feel like it will be better spent than hoping to play Kemet at some point.

+1 to SCUBA! It's one of the most awesome activities I've ever done. I got my wife certified and we did one trip to Cozumel a year ago, but nothing since. I would like to do it once a year, but have resigned myself to shoot for a trip every-other year.