My non-vulgar perspective on GameSalute....

Sag, I hope the game store you're talking about is not The Family Game Store at Savage Mill. I try to visit there at least once a year, and can say it doesn't feel (or smell) like a nerd store at all.

It seems most game stores are situated at older, more rundown shopping centers (not indoor malls). They seem to have been there for decades, but they don't get the foot traffic of regular parents who want to shop for their kids. And most don't care to 'clean up' their look to entice either.

Years ago, before I knew of this hobby, the ONLY place I thought of for board games was Toys R Us. If you go there now, it seems to be a sad affair with 49 flavors of Monopoly.

I wish FLGSs would thrive, but it doesn't help that many of them don't seem inviting to people outside the hobby already.

Having an eatery/FLGS just seems like a huge recipe for disaster. It would be taking two business that normally fail and expect them both to somehow support each other. You're asking a tall order because the food would have to be bangin' and relatively cost-effective. If not, you'd just have people go play games and then later eat at the Taco Bell. You could force a minimum purchase rule, but I think that would just further upset the players. They'd probably find an owner that wasn't such a dick. This is not to mention that you'd have to compete with the other restaurants in town. On the other side, you're having to compete with online retailers selling games at a much cheaper price. I think that kind of store front, while possible to succeed, is just trying to please two masters.

To further complicate matters, I don't want to bring my games in for other people to play. Some players have no regard for other people's stuff. All it takes is one player eating a greasy cheeseburger and playing one of your games. Someone clumsy enough might accidentally spill their drink on your game. If the price is right, I might buy a game from you, but I'm sure as hell thinking twice before I play that game in your store.

You might be able to make a better case for a coffee shop, but in the end you still need to pick whether you're going to be a coffee shop or a game store. Still doesn't seem like you can be both.

Actually, my favorite model for an FLGS is The Guardtower in Columbus, OH. They are in a tiny slightly rundown strip mall which looks completely like a pre-fab building.

Inside is lots and lots of shelves, two gaming tables, and the place is scrupulously clean. They also stock quite a bit of stuff, and specialize in digging up obscure things that I've NEVER heard of.

If I'm in Columbus, I go there just to look around, and I ALWAYS end up buying something. It is a destination store worthy of the name, and their rent is cheap. They don't expect walk-by traffic (which doesn't happen so much), and then they also don't have to deal with having to babysit kids dropped off at the "toy store".

I suspect that somehow people magically expect the FLGS to get new gamers into the hobby. That's our job--the stores just make it easier.

This is also the OLD model for a game store. You do need enough space for a few people to congregate and play. But then you need staff who are actually going to be customer focused (and not spend all their time playing games.) I suspect Factory Games had the right balance as well, but you also need REALLY cheap rent. The other game stores I know that failed were thanks to rent costs.

Million Dollar Mimring wrote: Having an eatery/FLGS just seems like a huge recipe for disaster. It would be taking two business that normally fail and expect them both to somehow support each other. You're asking a tall order because the food would have to be bangin' and relatively cost-effective. If not, you'd just have people go play games and then later eat at the Taco Bell. You could force a minimum purchase rule, but I think that would just further upset the players. They'd probably find an owner that wasn't such a dick. This is not to mention that you'd have to compete with the other restaurants in town. On the other side, you're having to compete with online retailers selling games at a much cheaper price. I think that kind of store front, while possible to succeed, is just trying to please two masters.

To further complicate matters, I don't want to bring my games in for other people to play. Some players have no regard for other people's stuff. All it takes is one player eating a greasy cheeseburger and playing one of your games. Someone clumsy enough might accidentally spill their drink on your game. If the price is right, I might buy a game from you, but I'm sure as hell thinking twice before I play that game in your store.

You might be able to make a better case for a coffee shop, but in the end you still need to pick whether you're going to be a coffee shop or a game store. Still doesn't seem like you can be both.

Um, this isn't a hypothetical business idea facing a panel of internet experts. Snakes and Lattes is an actual business in Toronto. The place is thriving so much they bought out the store next to them to accommodate the people lining up for the board game cafe. Even with the expansion the place is packed. Oddly enough, this place didn't even sell games when they first opened. It was a cafe that just happened to be packed with a silly amount of designer and classic boardgames. The game sales came later because there was demand for it.

You don't need to bring your own games because they have a rather sizable library that you can just pluck from the wall and use. There's a $5 cover fee, which does rather well to keep the typical hobby gamer out (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). In just about every way, this seems to be the future of board game retail. The old business model has been less than successful, so something new came along and cleaned up.

$5 each time you're there? That is balls (I am a poor).

No poors allowed.

SaMoKo wrote: Um, this isn't a hypothetical business idea facing a panel of internet experts. Snakes and Lattes is an actual business in Toronto. The place is thriving so much they bought out the store next to them to accommodate the people lining up for the board game cafe. Even with the expansion the place is packed. Oddly enough, this place didn't even sell games when they first opened. It was a cafe that just happened to be packed with a silly amount of designer and classic boardgames. The game sales came later because there was demand for it.

You don't need to bring your own games because they have a rather sizable library that you can just pluck from the wall and use. There's a $5 cover fee, which does rather well to keep the typical hobby gamer out (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). In just about every way, this seems to be the future of board game retail. The old business model has been less than successful, so something new came along and cleaned up.

I dropped by S&L yesterday for the first time in a while and was really surprised at how much it has grown. I remember when it first opened there was some debate on TABS (local gamer club) about whether the business model would be feasible. Kudos to them for doing every damn thing they can to get their name out to gamers and create some variety in what they can offer. They seem to have a presence at every con. I even saw a poster up at York University advertising a S&L game night in which all proceeds will go to the Cerebral Palsy Foundation. That's both shrewd and nice.

Before leaving the cafe, I let myself be talked into buying a copy of Cutthroat Caverns. Wrath of Ashardalon wouldn't fit in my bag.

BTW: SaMoKo, it'd be great to meet up for a game sometime! I may spam you if I organize something...

Hatchling wrote:

SaMoKo wrote:
I dropped by S&L yesterday for the first time in a while and was really surprised at how much it has grown. I remember when it first opened there was some debate on TABS (local gamer club) about whether the business model would be feasible. Kudos to them for doing every damn thing they can to get their name out to gamers and create some variety in what they can offer. They seem to have a presence at every con. I even saw a poster up at York University advertising a S&L game night in which all proceeds will go to the Cerebral Palsy Foundation. That's both shrewd and nice.

Good point. I spent some time talking to two of the guys at Gencon, and was STUNNED by the description. I would probably be there once or twice a week if it were an option, and end up saving some on game purchases.

There had been some discussion of such a thing in Atlanta, but under the guise of a private monthly clubhouse. That's a REALLY hard sell, and the startup and rent for commercial space are still a premium in the area--even with all of the sprawl of empty strip malls.

SaMoKo wrote: No poors allowed.

Yeah, you literally picked the WORST hobby, TSCOOK, for a broke ass.

Hatchling wrote:

SaMoKo wrote: BTW: SaMoKo, it'd be great to meet up for a game sometime! I may spam you if I organize something...

I work weird hours, so usually I'm able to make it on a Monday or Tuesday. It's been a while since I've been to the Tuesday TABS meetup, but I can swing something for sure. Massive AT fest with Cosmic Encounter, BSG and tons of cider perhaps?

SuperflyTNT wrote:

SaMoKo wrote: No poors allowed.

Yeah, you literally picked the WORST hobby, TSCOOK, for a broke ass.

Golf could be worse. Or air racing.

SuperflyTNT wrote: The problem lies in the fact that many game stores are were started by people with little business acumen, and are undercapitalized.

This. Every now and then a thread pops up in BGG about how they want to sell boardgames but not Magic because they don't like Magic.

You can change "Magic" to "free money" here.