Dark Knight is pretty damn good.

Michael Barnes wrote:

and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS would be a great title for the third film...

Since we know the studio is once again going to milk this franchise for all its worth, perhaps the fourth or fifth film could be The Dark Knight Returns. Although I have to say that a) I wish they'd not do another movie as it'll get screwed up somehow, and b) nobody can replace Ledger in this role for at least a decade.

I wonder if it would work if in the next film (or films) if The Joker is just a presence, if we never actually see The Joker again but we just know he's out there and we see his handiwork...an unseen force of malignancy and chaos that Batman is constantly chasing but never encountering again. And part of Batman's frustration/angst could be that he had a chance to end him but he didn't because of his moral position- it could open a lot of opportunities to explore regret and further questioning of Bruce Wayne's idealism.

Michael Barnes wrote:

I wonder if it would work if in the next film (or films) if The Joker is just a presence, if we never actually see The Joker again but we just know he's out there and we see his handiwork...an unseen force of malignancy and chaos that Batman is constantly chasing but never encountering again. And part of Batman's frustration/angst could be that he had a chance to end him but he didn't because of his moral position- it could open a lot of opportunities to explore regret and further questioning of Bruce Wayne's idealism.

The end of the third movie could show Batman visiting Arkham after an explosion/breakout and finding the Joker's card left behind in an emtpy cell. We all know Arkham won't hold him for long, but that would be a nice little "cameo" like the way they fit Scarecrow into TDK. Sort of how the first movie ended with Gordon handing the playing card to Batman.
Any movies after that could just leave Joker to being mentioned between Gordon and Batman as being active the way he was the year that passed between Begins and TDK. He's around, but he's not interacting with the current plot(s) of that particular movie.

We all know Arkham won't hold him for long

Yes, I hope that the next film actually shows the rusty old screen door down one of Arkham's halls that all those villains manage to get out with shocking regularity.

In the next movie, the Joker will be played by Maggie Gyllenhaal.

So, there's pretty much 0 question there will be a sequel. But who is the enemy in that sequel? Most of Batman's enemies are too cartoony/would need too much CGI to work in Nolan's imagining of Batman. Catwoman could work, but she's always been on the edge of villain/criminal vs. antihero. Bane could work (guy pumped with experimental drugs) but he's just not big enough to take the main stage. The police will play a prominent part, so one of the villains could just be the crackdown on Batman.

There are a number of the goofy villains who could receive a *major* makeover and downtone to make them work, I suppose. I think Catwoman will happen, especially given Wayne and Alfred's little banter about dogs and Alfred's "it should protect against cats" remark. But who else could be believably superpowered down and fit with the movie tone? Penguin? Clayface? The Riddler? The Croc man?

There's already talk that it's The Riddler- "Mister Reese", "Mysteries", get it?

It's really important that the villain be _meaningful_ in the context of this Batman universe as well as grounded in reality. Most Batman villains don't really fit that mold...of course, neither did Ra's Al-Ghul, Scarecrow, Two Face, or The Joker. Looking at that litany, it's got to be The Riddler next...I'd say Catwoman or Poison Ivy, but they may be a little too irredeemably close to pulp/camp. Neither could pose as big a threat as anything in TDK.

I actually think that a police procedural-style serial killer story focusing on Batman tracking down Holiday would be pretty interesting, but it'd probably come pretty close to just being a LONG HALLOWEEN movie...the only thing is that it would be a smaller scale than THE DARK KNIGHT...unless some really clever writing opened it up or they wanted to scale back and make a smaller, more psychological film.

Didn't know about the mister reese thing. Looked it up. Interesting. While I agree with you that Poison Ivy would really never fit into the universe in terms of telling us something about Batman or the universe, I think Catwoman could definitely be written to do so.

Mister Reese is just a coincidence - it's quite clear Nolan writes complete films and not fucking franchises. He doesn't seed things for future film. The joker card at the end of Begins was a Goyer element, not a Nolan one.

Good to see Barnes has finally gotten some taste. This movie is a fucking masterpiece, and blows every other comic film out of the water. It was first and foremost a FILM, driven by themes and drama rather than action setpieces. This is what douchebags who cry about twoface don't understand.

I'd like to see them have the balls to kill Batman in the third movie. They can have it be a transformative moment that finally pulls Gotham out of the darkness if the studio insists on some kind of happy resolution.

I'd go with having Bane do the job. A well done Bane - not the sub-human abomination version from the Clooney movie.

Michael Barnes wrote:

There's already talk that it's The Riddler- "Mister Reese", "Mysteries", get it?

The Riddler is E. Nigma. Reese is just subtle product placement .

I thought that Two Face's actor had stated somewhere that he's already signed for the next film. If that's the case, then it'll be Two Face + somebody else. Catwoman is possible, make her an independent operative to Batman who wants to go after Two Face for some reason or another.

I've kind of heard the spoilers about Two Face, so no, I don't know how that'll happen.

--Mike L.

Well, obfuscating truth in order to preserve order and the way of things is a big theme in the film- there's several points where deception is used to protect and defend. So it would totally be in line for the resolution of the Harvey Dent/Two Face story to wind up being a convenient lie told to maintain the status quo.

I could definitely see either the riddler or cat woman in a third movie. But, what about scarecrow popping back up in a larger role. His brief appearance in TDK seemed to me to serve the purpose of keeping that villain established within the series. Also his role in the first movie seemed to be mostly an origin of the character, as he didn't really become Scarecrow until he got blasted with his own "medicine". Although maintaining his char could simply be a way of illustrating the swining door or Arkham.

Mr.Boilerplate wrote:

I could definitely see either the riddler or cat woman in a third movie. But, what about scarecrow popping back up in a larger role. His brief appearance in TDK seemed to me to serve the purpose of keeping that villain established within the series. Also his role in the first movie seemed to be mostly an origin of the character, as he didn't really become Scarecrow until he got blasted with his own "medicine". Although maintaining his char could simply be a way of illustrating the swining door or Arkham.

More Scarecrow would be good. I've always liked the Clock King from the cartoon. Timing is everything.