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TOPIC: Netrunner (and LCGs)

Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 11:15 #221796

Can Netrunner be played multiplayer? Does it play well that way? That'd sure go a long way towards whether I got into it or not.

Here's the main thing though, and please correct me if I'm wrong. These LCGs seem to work if you buy in from the beginning. I mean, I look at CCGs like Magic and Pokemon and every year they release new starter sets so new folks can jump on. I don't get the perception that LCGs operate like that though. Again, I could be totally wrong, never having bought into a LCG, but it seems as if the games get one initial starter then a series of booster backs and a few larger expansions then some years later the line is discontinued. That's what I've seen from the others, so with Netrunner, I feel like there's the one initial starter and a gazillion boosters, but at some point soon it's going to stop. Is there a new starter coming out I'm unaware of? The CCGs actually feel more new user friendly and less intimidating. I don't feel like I have to catch up with all the previous releases, I can (and we have) just get in now.

Can anyone speak to this because it seems to me like LCGs are an epic fail compared to CCGs.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 11:45 #221799

Old school Netrunner fan here. Officially, no you can't play Netrunner multi-player. I have pondered the idea of multi-player, thinking that it might work if you had an even number of players, split evenly between the corp and runner sides. But it wouldn't work well because one side is active and the other side is passive. That means that the netrunner player could effectively team up on one corp, but the corp players wouldn't have any cooperative synergy, and that throws the whole game out of balance. Maybe there is some provision in the FFG iteration of the game that makes multi-player viable, but I doubt that they changed the game to that degree.

I don't see any difference in terms of long-term fail between the LCG and CCG format, unless we're talking about a CCG with rules for card obsolescence, like Magic or Legend of the Five Rings. Most CCGs fail anyway, because the games effectively incorporate a player's real world money as a game resource. The CCGs that lasted for more than a couple of expansions tend to run into a couple of problems: broken combos and power creep. Broken combos seem inevitable, because with each additional expansion, the chances increase astronomically that there will be some abusive card combos that break the game. Power creep happens because game companies need players to keep buying the new card sets instead of just playing with the old cards, and the easiest way to ensure that is to increase the power and/or cost effectiveness of the newer cards, eventually breaking the game. With card obsolescence, a CCG can be kept on a steadier course over the long haul by retiring older sets, at least for competitive play. That reduces the card combos to balance and eliminates the need for power creep. The LCG format can also easily implement card obsolescence.

In the past, I have attempted to convert some of my CCGs into boardgames by creating a set of ready decks that are fairly balanced against each other. Unfortunately, most CCG players don't want to play a deck built by somebody else, they want to make their own decks. So once a CCG or LCG loses a critical mass of competitive players, it dies. A local play group might keep the group alive for a time, but the lack of fresh cards will eventually bore the deckbuilders, and the game dies anyway.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 13:13 #221809

Mr. White wrote:
Can anyone speak to this because it seems to me like LCGs are an epic fail compared to CCGs.

Thats a first official warning for you Jeffers.

since you're such a good egg, here's a free correction

Can anyone comment on this because it seems to me like LCGs are an epic fail compared to CCGs.[/quote]
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 13:14 by SuperFlySwatter.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 13:45 #221812

I played a lot of Netrunner the first year and a half or so when it came out. It suffers from the same problems with most collectable card games:

- No active community near you means you are gonna give up trying to play it.

I was the most active player among my friends, playing in regionals and nationals. They just abandoned the game much earlier than me. Yes you can play on some online clients, but screw that, I play games to be social. If i wanna play videogames I'll just do that tbh.


The cost to get back in the game just seems to get higher and higher. And FFG hasn't proven yet that their LCG format is in it for the long haul. With Game of Thrones just starting over and over, and Warhammer being discontinued. Yes LCG, is a good model to get people to commit to a new game it when it's being released. But limited rotation (I mean purchasing 7 cycles is a huge investment), evergrowing restricted lists etc, makes the number of active players dwindle over time.

The only ccg/lcg I still enjoy is MTG and that is just because of their succesful draft format. Netrunner has tried this, and sadly failed.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 13:58 #221814

bocaJnoJ wrote:
Mr. White wrote:
Can anyone speak to this because it seems to me like LCGs are an epic fail compared to CCGs.

Thats a first official warning for you Jeffers.

since you're such a good egg, here's a free correction

Can anyone comment on this because it seems to me like LCGs are an epic fail compared to CCGs.

Ha! C'mon man...I thought it was obvious. I just threw that sentence onto the end just to rib you and Josh:
Mr. White wrote:
Can anyone speak to this because it seems to me like LCGs are an epic fail compared to CCGs.


LilRed, what do you mean Netrunner tried the draft and it failed? I think I witnessed my first draft last weekend. There was a new Pokemon release so at this pre-release party they gave all attendees 6 of these new boosters to make a 40 card deck with and played a mini tourney from those 40 cards. Players didn't know what they would have going into the day. Same thing? How was Netrunner not able to replicate that?
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Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 14:16 by Mr. White.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 15:01 #221820

I tried to pick up Netrunner tournament play for a while, since I liked the game a lot. It turned out that keeping up with an expansion a month was more effort than I wanted to exert. $10/month was no big thing, but tearing down and reassembling decks to keep up with the environment was a PITA. I could see myself picking it back up again, although I think I'm about $300 or so behind the curve at the moment.

LilRed is right as well. It'd be close to $500 to get all the cards. I don't know if FFG is going to roll cycles out a'la WotC does for Magic Type 2, and if FFG doesn't, this won't get better. For a hobby, $500 is pretty inexpensive. For something to try out and not know if if you'll like it or not, that's a little steep.
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Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 15:29 by RobertB.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 15:11 #221821

haha, I knew you were teasing Whitey, at least, I figured you were!
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 15:13 #221822

You could buy WoTC Netrunner starter packs from eBay. They had a brilliant distribution scheme so every deck plays well out of the box. A few weeks ago I got a sealed shop pack of 6 double starter sets for $50 (that's 720 cards).

And if you google around a bit you'll find a very clever and thematic team variant called The Big Sellout. Each Corp has a Runner working for it. Sucking from the corporate tit.

The imperfect 90s art (some hand-drawn, some primitive CGI) and silver-bordered cards give the game the seedy atmosphere it deserves. Much more cyberpunk than FFG's effort.

Original Netrunner is the most-played game this year in my group. We're bringing it back. Doin' the 'Drine.

image.jpeg
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Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 15:43 by dontbecruel.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 16:20 #221824

Any idea if The Big Sellout can be played with the FFG edition?
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 16:22 #221827

I agree that the original Netrunner sealed decks are a great way to try the game out without spending a lot of money.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 16:55 #221833

Mr. White wrote:
Any idea if The Big Sellout can be played with the FFG edition?
Yes, only the Trace rules changed between ONR and A:NR.
www.reddit.com/r/Netrunner/comments/299x...r_variant_for_90snr/
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Last Edit: 05 Feb 2016 17:32 by dontbecruel.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 05 Feb 2016 19:03 #221839

Mr. White wrote:

LilRed, what do you mean Netrunner tried the draft and it failed?

Because of the structure of Netrunner, where the Corp and the Runner have completely different cards, a draft is much harder than in most other CCGs like Pokemon or Magic. There have been attempts at draft formats (first everyone drafts Corp, then everyone drafts Runner) but they haven't stuck because they just don't work that well.

I think you make an interesting point Mr White that because LCGs haven't really moved to a standard format like Magic (and now Hearthstone) for example did, the mental and economical burden to buy in becomes too steep after a few months. Couple that with what everyone else has pointed out, that you need a community or the game just doesn't work, and I'm surprised these games have done as well for them as they have.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 06 Feb 2016 04:46 #221849

Mr. White wrote:
LilRed, what do you mean Netrunner tried the draft and it failed?

Being a LCG, you either have to make a draft cube yourself, often having to own multiple copies of expansions and base games. Or you can buy the starters and draft packs that fantasy flight created. So basicly turning the LCG into a CCG again...

The shear nature of Netrunner makes it so that drafting is a pain, especially corp decks that are naturally reactionary in their nature need to have a pretty good constructed deck to stand a chance at a runner. I never seen anyone in our scene draft Netrunner more than once, nor do I see the drafter packs at any of my FLGS anymore.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 06 Feb 2016 14:54 #221857

I still don't understand why you can't just buy the base set, and maybe an expansion, and play your friends once in a while without having to mortgage your house or sell organs.
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Netrunner (and LCGs) 06 Feb 2016 17:26 #221861

craniac wrote:
I still don't understand why you can't just buy the base set, and maybe an expansion, and play your friends once in a while without having to mortgage your house or sell organs.

Possible for all C/LCG's ever. But you as the person who owns the stuff have got to be a big proponent of it or it just doesn't work, and that's assuming your friends aren't the kind who would rather build their own decks. In my experience, anyway.
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