Prithee, may we have parlance re: The Witch (SPOILERS)

I finally saw it on PPV last night. The whole time I was watching it, I kept thinking "I dunno"...but by the end of it, I was totally blown away by it. It's like a horror movie directed by Terence Malik AND Stanley Kubrick. It is definitely not a film for everyone, and most definitely not one for most modern horror "fans". It's delicate, quiet and not at all concerned with thrilling the audience. It digs a lot deeper than the folks who say it "isn't scary" recognize. I thought it was profoundly chilling and I was glad that it wasn't just an uncredited knock off of Eyes of Fire.

Spoilers from this point on.

The genius of this film is that it takes traditional, folkloric beliefs about witches and makes them REAL. I loved how there was the "are they just going crazy" hysterics, but nope, it was witches. The big "what if" at work takes all of those puritanical, Calvinist paranoias about witchcraft, sex, the natural world, savages, sin, temptation and so forth and makes them all true.

I loved how little things, little transgressions like lying about the silver cup crept in and became destructive. Caleb slides into temptation, looking at his sister's developing cleavage. It's all stuff that a 17th century Puritan would be terrified of.

Let alone the big unknown of the woods. How terrifying that must have been to be essentially alone in a foreign land, in a wilderness where you believe that magic runs wild and the devil lurks behind every tree. One of the most affecting moments was when Katherine says "I want to go home...to England."

The ending was supremely spooky- especially if you are like me and grew up reading books about monsters and such and you'd see those old Dore woodcuts that showed witches, the old illustrations of Sabbath and so on. I knew right away when then baby was killed and the witch was rubbing the blood all over that it was the traditional myth of the flying ointment. But being lead to the Sabbath by a black goat, the witches, the fire, the flying...that is all really primal stuff far more deeply, elemental my scary than most of the horror bogeymen out there.

"Do you see a book?" "My hand will guide yours." God damn it...don't tell me this movie isn't scary! I totally had chills.

Lots of great horror moments- when the baby disappears, that is just brilliant. I loved how truncated a lot of the more direct horror stuff was- the director doesn't give you time to linger...or question.

So yeah, worth the wait. I'd rank it up there with the the Babadook among the best that modern horror has to offer. This is a world class horror film and one that deserves to be held in the same stature as Rosemary's Baby and the Exorcist.

And it cost only one million dollars to make.

Counterpoint, from someone who watched it last weekend. Yes, there is a sense of growing dread. But it's really just a boring film, punctuated by about 3 events. The only part I really thought was wild was when the raven was pecking at the mother's tit.

I fully acknowledge that perhaps I was just in the mood for a different variety of horror film. I will also add that I really liked Babadook.

I rank The Witch near the bottom of my all-time top ten list for horror movies. The acting is very good, except that the child actors are incredibly good. The commitment to the setting is great, though I did struggle to follow the old English dialect in a couple of places. There is a sustained air of brooding menace, punctuated by moments of more urgent terror. The reason that I place The Witch low on my top ten list is that it is almost relentlessly bleak, to the point that I admired the movie more than I enjoyed it.

The Witch is also an amazing movie because it has the audacity to flip the narrative at the end of the movie. Some viewers hated the ending because they wanted a conventional ending, whether happy or even tragic. But the nature of being a witch in that time and place was to completely defy the constraints of an oppressive society that demanded that women serve as passive breeders and homemakers. Instead, a witch of this time was completely independent, and more inclined to torture or even eat a child than to nurture one. It's monstrous behavior, but if I were a modern woman forced to live in that era, I too would be tempted by the forbidden promises of Phillip the Goat.

Michael Barnes wrote: I finally saw it on PPV last night. The whole time I was watching it, I kept thinking "I dunno"...but by the end of it, I was totally blown away by it. It's like a horror movie directed by Terence Malik AND Stanley Kubrick. It is definitely not a film for everyone, and most definitely not one for most modern horror "fans". It's delicate, quiet and not at all concerned with thrilling the audience. It digs a lot deeper than the folks who say it "isn't scary" recognize. I thought it was profoundly chilling and I was glad that it wasn't just an uncredited knock off of Eyes of Fire.

Didn't read the rest of your post, as I haven't seen it yet, but I am fired up about this one. I really like movies, and I have seen thousands, But I rarely get to watch them now, given lots of little kids, a very small house, and a spouse that is not as nearly into cinema as I. Certainly not horror, or a movie like this where the accents will be impenetrable. C'est la guerre. I've read some reviews of this one.

I grew up in Massachusetts, and that witchy stuff is mentioned in history class. The experience of the settlers/colonists is discussed in some detail, with a lot of time spent on Mather, Priestly, and some on King Philip (Metacomet) and the Indian wars. I've mentioned my ancestor's whipping here before. It's still pretty undeveloped where I grew up--I could walk from my bus stop into 300 acres of deep woods by turning north instead of south. Out there, you'll still find stone walls and things from hundreds of years ago as folks struggled to live out there. This will be like a trip to the dark side of Old Sturbridge Village .

Spoilers...

Yeah, isn't it funny how the conventional ending would have been the "they were crazy al the time, see, religious hysteria makes you go crazy." But that was just not he case.

I loved the raven scene...and how the devil was offering exactly what everyone wanted. Even that silver cup.

I don't know if there has ever been a better use of three or four extra seconds of silence in a film as when she asks Black Phillip to speak. It just hangs in the air...will he or won't he? The entire film is suspended in that moment. And then he DOES. It's like the film is saying "I am NOT fucking with you."

Yeah, I really liked this one a whole lot. Don't really have anything to add since Michael had a similar experience to mine with it and he nailed everything I liked about it. The ending is masterful.

As the only other person on this site who had seen Eyes of Fire, I too breathed a huge sigh or relief that The Witch was not a blatant ripoff.

But OH BOY did I think it was headed that way in the first several minutes. When he got cast out, they set up a new farm on the edge of the woods...I was like "uh oh..." It's pretty clear that the director/writer has seen Eyes of Fire, because there are a lot of similarities including the OMG Witches are real thing. But The Witch is a much more sophisticated, artful picture that is aiming for something more primal. I actually think that Eyes of Fire is the film that most people- like our very own Hotseatgames- wanted out of The Witch. And I would recommend that anyone disappointed with The Witch check it out on YouTube.

That last scene really captured something quite discreet...a feeling of seeing something that you are not supposed to see.

The only thing about the movie that maybe didn't work for me - and it's my fault, not the film's - was the goat. I wasn't really scared by it. Because I ADORE goats. I LOVE goats. That goat was BEAUTIFUL and I want to build a pen in my yard and keep him.

[rant]The only thing that didn't work for me was that I made the mistake of watching The Witch in a movie theater. The guy behind me was compulsively tapping his feet during the early scary scenes, until I pitched my voice in a low, guttural whisper and said, "stop tapping your feet." He stopped, period. Late in the movie, when the girl is alone in the house before going out to talk to Black Phillip, a cell phone goes off. Several people groaned, and one guy said loudly, "SERIOUSLY?" Jesus christ, what kind of jackass fails to heed both of the warnings to turn off your phone, as well as general civility and common sense? I'm furious that AMC is now talking about allowing people to use their cell phones during movies. AMC better walk that stupid shit back, because millennials are fucking retarded about their goddamn smart phones and they need to learn that there are times to put that shit away.[/rant]

Same issue as Shell, watching it in a theater with yahoos who were expecting The Conjuring or Paranormal Activity or whatever. I'm looking forward to seeing it again at home soon.

SPOILERS

The ending is brilliant because on the one hand you can't imagine why she would do that, essentially completely betraying her family and siding with the force that caused their demise... but considering all that's happened, what alternative does she really have? And the idea of living deliciously would probably be very appealing at that moment, especially under the spell of Black Philip. There is also the unseen but implied idea that the twins were captured and sacrificed, which is what fuels the group flying scene at the end. It's both a strongly empowering feeling to see that scene and also deeply horrific and twisted, but I love that.

Also, as a member of a religious institution where members and leaders can be self-righteous and obedience-focused and judgmental with each other (well, that probably applies to many religious institutions), I loved how those things served only to further drive the family apart and into paranoia (justified though the paranoia was, just not due to what they thought, i.e., their sinful natures).

Btw, Shell, AMC recanted their idea about allowing cell phones the day after they first suggested that. The backlash was huge and they rightly said, "Nevermind!"

I loved this film for all the reasons mentioned. I had no problem at all with the lack of "events" because for me, almost every sentence spoken by the characters was an event, a step further into damnation for them all.

Also, that hare.

I really recommend A Field in England as another 17thC folklore movie, with the caveat that it's a complete melon-twister.

I've been meaning to watch that, it's on Amazon Prime. Maybe tonight.

That's an interesting point about the paranoia...it isn't the belief in all of this stuff (which turns out to be irrelevant because the supernatural is real regardless), it's really kind of the lack of faith in the family that breaks them apart. There's a more sophisticated, nuanced message here about faith and belief than usual.

Michael Barnes wrote: I've been meaning to watch that, it's on Amazon Prime. Maybe tonight.

That's an interesting point about the paranoia...it isn't the belief in all of this stuff (which turns out to be irrelevant because the supernatural is real regardless), it's really kind of the lack of faith in the family that breaks them apart. There's a more sophisticated, nuanced message here about faith and belief than usual.

Good point. That family fell apart in the face of a supernatural threat, but it was already weakened by lack of trust. The husband sold the silver cup to alleviate their financial straits, but let the teenage daughter take the heat for it for a long time instead of being honest with his wife. Mothers and their teenage daughters already tend to have conflicts, and this silver cup became a wedge.

Sorry Barney. I accidentally edited this post.

-Mad Dog

Before fucking up Barney's post above mine, I meant to post that I watched this again with subtitles and directors commentary. I enjoyed it just as much the second time.