The F:AT "Lost" thread

We skipped digesting the What Kate Did episode I guess. Probably because Kate sucks and I hate her stupid face. Now we're back with real action, and Kate doesn't get a write-up on the cave wall! Satisfaction.

One of the best episodes this show has ever had. The more time they spend with Terry O'Quinn, the better. Tons of cool layers here. Locke-2 is still paralyzed, but not by his Dad? (Fiancee wants to invite him to the elopement.) He's a champion of reason, and wants to quash any sense of miracles--meanwhile, Smocke is also a champion of reason, telling Richard how stupid he we was to just blindly believe Jacob for all that time--Smocke would be up front about everything.

...or would he? He is selling somethign to Sawyer--probably some rule compels him to get assistance off the island, but it looks like Sawyer is going to give it. My series ending theory that Sawyer replaces Justice and Sheperd replaces Jacob is gelling.

I caught "What Kate Does" last week and thought it was a pretty good, though not terrific, episode. I generally enjoy Kate episodes more than I mean to, and last week was one of the better ones.

But "The Substitute?" That was Lost at it's best. Regular Locke was my favorite character, and Un-Locke is just as compelling. The end scene with Sawyer and Un-Locke was that perfect sequence that Lost does so well, where we feel like we needed 50 answers, we got half of one, and it'll actually do for right now.

I am pretty convinced that the Man in Black will end up being the "bad guy" when all is said and done, but he makes a lot of really good arguments to other characters. If Richard wasn't so genuinely terrified of him, I would probably trust him more. But then, we don't know that much about Richard, do we?

New theory:

Smokey was one of Jacob's previous recruits to protect the island. But now he's trapped in the role (which is why he hates Jacob and wants to go home) and Jacob is looking for a substitute. The people he touched are candidates.

Octavian wrote:

New theory:

Smokey was one of Jacob's previous recruits to protect the island. But now he's trapped in the role (which is why he hates Jacob and wants to go home) and Jacob is looking for a substitute. The people he touched are candidates.

I see the island as an eternal yin-yang battleground. When Smocke says that Sawyer can take Jacob's place defending the island, and Sawyer asks from what--I think the island needs to be protected from Smocke. He's an anti-hero to be sure--reminds me of Agent Smith in THE MATRIX before that got so shitty. He was the only one that actually wanted to dismantle the whole operation. A fatalistic drive to end the conflict, no matter the consequences.

Kate was not on the ceiling--not a candidate--but touched by Jacob.

Sure, he's a bad guy now. But his monologue at the end sounded like it came from someone who came to these revelations after believing the things that he is now denouncing.

Same with when he was telling Sawyer about Jacob's manipulating his life to bring him to the island. Again, sounded like it was someone speaking from personal experience.

I noticed that Kate wasn't on the cave wall too...but they went to the extent of showing clips to tie the touching in with their names showing up on the wall - another question, I suppose.

What has me confused is that we have been told in past seasons that it is the smoke monster which is a security system that protects the island.

Now we are being told that it is Jacob which protects the island?

Either we are not being told everything (which is likely) or the writers are changing things up late in the game (which would be highly unfortunate).

Is it possible that it is really smokey who is looking for a replacement?

I don't think they said Jacob protects the island - Smokey said he's going to recruit someone to protect the island (like Smokey had been doing).

Maybe he's compelled to act out his role?

It is also true that some of the things that we have been told, have been told by people with incomplete understandings. The flip side of that being that the statements are true and that we just don't have the context to apply them yet.

Ben is one of the more enlightened folks on the island, or had been up till this season, but its quickly clear how much he really does not know.

Ok. So Jack is going to be getting or somehow helping Aaron get back to the island. Thats what I think anyway. I also believe this will have some effect on Jungle Clair. Not sure if it is Clair or Locke which will cause the baddness at the Temple.

Had an argument with my Lost friends about the level of crazy Clair is vs. Danielle. My statement was that they are totaly diffrent in scope as Clair is infected and Danielle was just crazy. There are parallels for sure. But Clair is much less sane due to the infection. Like to hear some thoughts on this if you guys are up to it.

I thought last night was one of the best episodes in a long time.

In some ways, Jack is just as misguided as Locke was. He's more of a take-charge type, and believes in his own ability to alter situations, but he is looking for his purpose as much as everyone else. When you combine that with his can-do attitude, it's resulted in a much higher body count than he ever thought it would. Tonight was an episode that gave his character much more focus for me.

In the crazy sweepstakes between Claire and Rousseau, I would have to say Claire, but that's only because we know her much better than we ever knew Rousseau. In some ways, Rousseau is the Boba Fett of Lost, a minor character with whom some fans have an odd obsession. Her death was shocking, but more because I assumed she would always be on the island, not because I had any sort of attachment to her.

Rousseau was pretty bat-shit crazy. She seemed more lucid in later episodes, but she also tortured Sayid one of the first times we saw her.

But I don't think she had the same personal relationship with Smokey that Claire has.

I'm becoming increasingly interested in where these flash-sideways are going. Multiple references to their island lives, lots of scenes with mirrors, and most interestingly they've (thus far) followed the same pattern as the first season flashbacks in terms of who they follow but with the themes reversed. Plane lands instead of crashes. Kate escaping instead of Kate getting caught. Locke accepting his disability and moving on with life rather than being angry and denying it. Jack trying to have a good relationship with his compared to Jacks strained relationship with his father.

If the pattern continues next week will be a Sun episode - the one after that was Charlie, so maybe they'll use that as an opportunity to give us a flash-sideways for someone new (Alpert?)

-MMM

Good thoughts there.

Let me rephrase my question. Do you think there is a marked difference in the crazy? Rousseau was pretty much alone for 16 years and had a "known" set of conditions for her life on the Island. These conditions did not have the crash victims within them. Once the parameters were changed she did as well. Rousseau was also not really a killer. She knew he took Alex, and even given the chance to shoot Ben she did not. This is a marked difference from Clair, who is both mad and viscous. That is how my thoughts run anyway. Your point about the direct influence of "Christian" ect is a good one however. I was making the case that the infection in Clair is what is making here worse. It could just be the guy talking into her ear.

I think there will be a point where Clair snaps out of it, as stated before by me I think this will be when she is reunited with Aaron after Jack enables / fetches him to the Island.

I really liked the heavier departure from what the flashback timelines showed us before. Locke's change was a bit of a continuation of what we knew. Kind of curious how he met the girl without the daddy issues he seems to have fixed / never had this time. That being based on the fact that his dad was invited to his wedding. Jack on the other hand is a bit of a radical departure. I just rewatched the series so I am pretty sure he never had a kid. So in this instance we are feeling more of the 30 odd years of changed time. I want to see what else we are going to learn. We are also headed for a Jack / Clair brother / sister reveal. Probably the first of two we get to see this season. Pretty excited about these two scenes.

Leon McNichol wrote:

I think there will be a point where Clair snaps out of it, as stated before by me I think this will be when she is reunited with Aaron after Jack enables / fetches him to the Island.

I think we are seeing a pretty clear shift in character's loyalties. Claire has now been alone (or with the MiB) for much longer than she was EVER with the survivors of the 815, so I don't see her shifting loyalties back anytime soon. Jacob and the MiB are clearly getting followers though, Jacob through gentle prodding and low-key influence, the man in black through the "sickness" and empty promises.

Some predictions

- Sawyer will eventually come to understand that the MiB has no intention of helping him get home, and will sacrifice himself, most likely for Kate.

- The temple will be attacked and fall, probably resulting in the MiB making good on his claim on Sayid. Chalk one more up on his side.

- The flash-sideways will eventually consolidate with the familiar-to-us timeline, after Jacob somehow makes an appearance in the parallel world.

Wow! Lots of death last night. Was not ready for that. Sides are getting chosen for sure. Was waiting for the other Clair shoe to drop. Looks to me like Kate is in for a world of bad. Also not sure what happened to Ben, but as next week apears to be Ben centric I am sure we will find something out.

I think Ben has seen enough people turn due to the infection to immediately recognize it in Sayid. Seeing Ben scared is a real treat.

It was great to see Sayid kicking more ass in this episode, but now that he's turned there aren't a whole lot of characters left to like. Hurley, but he's more of a jester. Miles and Lapidus, but their fairly secondary. Some characters are going to need some redemptive moments for me to care about what happens to them.

Not complaining too much, though. Just finding out what the hell is going on is more than enough to keep me interested.