Eclipse? Anyone here still play it?

Black Barney wrote: I'd say skip it. I bought it and played it once or twice and never again. It just takes too long. The app is probably a great choice.

God damn kids and their short attention spans. Eclipse takes maybe three hours to play.

I played Eclipse once. It took four hours and felt like a hundred. Even if it's only supposed to be three hours, that's a really long time for a Euro.

I waffle on Eclipse. There's a lot that appeals to me: I'd like to play a space game that doesn't soak up an entire afternoon, and I don't want to have to navigate a million different pathways in each game. I like that Eclipse takes the 4X genre, which is usually too overwhelming for me, and scales it down so I can get a handle on it. I like its economics systems, and I like a lot of other things about it.

That said, it just turns me off. There's the issue with randomness, which I normally don't mind so much, but I find really offputting in this game. There's also a sense of "gaminess" about it: in one of our games a person did stupid, pointless moves like throwing scrub ships into a battle he knew he'd lose. But hey, he gets a tile pull out of it. Do it enough times and you earn some serious points, even though you're accomplishing nothing. Meanwhile other players are actually fighting and exploring and other stuff but not scoring as well. He didn't win, but the fact that this is even a possible strategy is absurd.

It's just kind of there for me. I won't say no to it, and I need to dive into the iPad game in earnest, but it's not a priority.

I think folks bring a lot of baggage into ECLIPSE and end up not liking it as a result. Every time I see that complaint Legomancer mentions about losers getting points I know they are coming from a RISK or TI background where losers are losers that losey-lose. That's not this game--fighting gets you points in ECLIPSE--actually engaging and not chickening out is enough to get you points. If you win, you get a better shot at more points, and/or you take/hold on to system points, and/or expand your economy with colonization.

It's just a different game. The setting has people assuming its TI:LITE, (TWILITE IMPERIUM? trademarked--that one's mine), but it's not by a longshot. It's more like CIV-LITE-IN-SPACE.

jeb wrote: It's just a different game. The setting has people assuming its TI:LITE, (TWILITE IMPERIUM? trademarked--that one's mine), but it's not by a longshot. It's more like CIV-LITE-IN-SPACE.

Fair enough. But is it fun? Or is it a soul sucker?

I think it's fun, but it's going to be about the crowd. Some games will make a group fun. This one won't. So if you are playing with a bunch of gameurs, it will be as dry as the desert wind. But with regular people and enough insight into the aliens to recognize that the Planta are exploring the shit out of everything and need to be weeded is a good time. I spend most games convincing people to attack Planta for fuck's sake. Look at them!!

jeb wrote: I think it's fun, but it's going to be about the crowd. Some games will make a group fun. This one won't. So if you are playing with a bunch of gameurs, it will be as dry as the desert wind. But with regular people and enough insight into the aliens to recognize that the Planta are exploring the shit out of everything and need to be weeded is a good time. I spend most games convincing people to attack Planta for fuck's sake. Look at them!!

I agree with this completely. I don't really get the criticism that it's too Euro - our games have had a lot of conflict, some decent negotiation and metagaming, alliances and backstabbing, and the combat is far from deterministic. Plus the tech and customization is a lot of fun and provides some good decision points. I think it's best with four or five, but I don't mind it at any number less than six.

I'd say Ascending Empires is probably the best Space 4x game to date. But i think we are still waiting for a definitive title. 4x is difficult to do because each of the X mechanics is essentially a gating mechanism for the next, and couple that will a demand for free agency and diplomacy by the players and you get a game where you can get screwed out early.

DukeofChutney wrote: I'd say Ascending Empires is probably the best Space 4x game to date. But i think we are still waiting for a definitive title. 4x is difficult to do because each of the X mechanics is essentially a gating mechanism for the next, and couple that will a demand for free agency and diplomacy by the players and you get a game where you can get screwed out early.

I have it and it's not bad for sure. I'm still looking for something a little deeper though. Space Empires 4X?

Space Empires is good but kind of dry. It's more of a wargame take on 4x, so extermination is pretty much the goal. Still, I like how they go with pencil and paper rather than buckets of cards and chits. It just makes everything cleaner and less cluttered.

scissors wrote: Eclipse... is it worth getting?

Nope.

Tom Vasel also recommended Exodous: Proxima Centauri as good 4x. Anyone have any words about this?

(beside being so obnoxiously named and hard to remember)

Josh Look wrote:

scissors wrote: Eclipse... is it worth getting?

Nope.

Seems like all the folks who were gushing like crazy upon Eclipse's release have cooled on it.

So what I really want to know is: forget the Twilight Imperium comparison, is there anyone here who prefers Eclipse to Clash of Cultures (who has played both, of course)?

dragonstout wrote: Seems like all the folks who were gushing like crazy upon Eclipse's release have cooled on it.

So what I really want to know is: forget the Twilight Imperium comparison, is there anyone here who prefers Eclipse to Clash of Cultures (who has played both, of course)?

No, seems like Eclipse's most vocal critics are still banging the same old drum. Those are also the ones claiming TI3 is totally unlike Eclipse. But the two are very alike, playwise if not in scope.

Schweig! wrote: No, seems like Eclipse's most vocal critics are still banging the same old drum. Those are also the ones claiming TI3 is totally unlike Eclipse. But the two are very alike, playwise if not in scope.

They are nothing alike. At all, other than space empire theme. I would say Clash of Cultures is a much better game. Where Eclipse gives an illusion of variety, CoC has it. Where combat in Eclipse is a tedious drag (especially in the late game), CoC keeps it quick and decisive all the way through. Where turtling is the default strategy in Eclipse, it is near impossible to follow that strategy and win in CoC, it forces you to expand. The tech tree in Eclipse is a bit random (in the way the tiles come out and such) and thus inhibit a chosen strategy. The techs in CoC are always available and thus you are free to pursue a path from the start.

And last, there are no Plasma Missiles in Clash of Cultures.