Let's talk Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition

tscook wrote: D&D is a miniatures game.

4th edition is really the only iteration of the game in which that is true. They're always "optional," 5th edition less so than ever.

Josh Look wrote:

tscook wrote: D&D is a miniatures game.

4th edition is really the only iteration of the game in which that is true. They're always "optional," 5th edition less so than ever.

D&D arose from variant rules for a miniatures game called Chainmail.

Cook's just stirring the pot. Gygax wrote wargames prior to D&D, but D&D was a vastly different critter from the get-go. Granted it does have a lot of sword swinging in it but its strength through the years has been about story. I started a whole new genre of gaming. So don't jump down the hole after Cook just because he asked you to.

S.

I enjoy playing D&D with miniatures but I'm firmly in the camp that they are not a necessity and that the game is at its best without minis, regardless of its origins.

The rules since the inception of D&D encourage miniatures, there has always been official D&D miniatures for every version, etc. etc. etc.

Shellhead wrote: Every rpg that I can readily remember seems to have some kind of restriction on spell-casting, to prevent players from seeming godlike. In Call of Cthulhu, spell-casting tends to cost sanity points. In Mage, spellcasters must use magic in subtle, coincidental-seeming ways, or else risk vicious paradox effects.

I prefer Shadowrun's mechanic. When a mage casts a spell he can choose how much power to crank into it, but push your limits too hard and it will kill you. Shadowrun uses a drain system in which the mage must pass a resistance test with a difficulty based on the power of the spell, usually resisted by the mage's will. So with every spell cast you could possibly get away without any negative consequence but there is always the chance the spell will fatigue or wound the mage.

Dungeon World has a bit of this too in that a mage can cast the spell and keep it without penalty or if he flubs his test he either loses the spell for a while or chooses some other negative consequence.

Did I mention that the Super Star Artist Lindsey Look is featured in the 5th Edition Monster Manual? I didn't?

Hey! Lindsey Look's art is in the new Monster Manual.

Apparently I'm too retarded to be able to link an image. But trust me...she's in there.

repoman wrote: Did I mention that the Super Star Artist Lindsey Look is featured in the 5th Edition Monster Manual? I didn't?

Hey! Lindsey Look's art is in the new Monster Manual.

Apparently I'm too retarded to be able to link an image. But trust me...she's in there.

It's not out there in full force yet, should be easier to find after the 30th.

Also, the likeness of a certain world famous podcaster who frequents this site was used for the cultist.

Josh Look wrote:

repoman wrote: Did I mention that the Super Star Artist Lindsey Look is featured in the 5th Edition Monster Manual? I didn't?

Hey! Lindsey Look's art is in the new Monster Manual.

Apparently I'm too retarded to be able to link an image. But trust me...she's in there.

It's not out there in full force yet, should be easier to find after the 30th.

Also, the likeness of a certain world famous podcaster who frequents this site was used for the cultist.

Oh my god I LOVE MARK JOHNSON!!

Since I started playing D&D in the 80's, everyone always had miniatures, but they weren't for playing...they were just for looks, how the player liked to picture their character.

They were never a tactile part of any of the games I ran in those days.

I always had graph paper and pencils, and I would say, x where you are standing. Go!

Josh Look wrote: Also, the likeness of a certain world famous podcaster who frequents this site was used for the cultist.

I really should have been that elf babe!

I ran a lot of 1st edition D&D, and we didn't use miniatures at all. The maps were simply a reference point for where the party had been so far. Combat was simply a matter of identifying who you were attacking or who was attacking you, and we only checked the map to figure out potential issues with area of effect stuff like breath weapons and fireballs.

Then I ran GURPS for several years, where the crunchy mechanics practically required tactical hex maps for everything. And that tended to add a tactical richness to the experience. Now, where you were standing sometimes mattered a lot, with respect to allies, enemies, exits, terrain features, furniture, etc. The ability to exploit the advantages or overcome the disadvantages of a given situation made the game more fun. I kept it affordable by using Cardboard Heroes made by Steve Jackson Games.

And yet, when I ran a lengthy campaign for Call of Cthulhu, we usually didn't bother with maps or minis. It wasn't conducive to the style of the game, and the rules weren't detailed enough to bother with it.

For the last two years, I have been running a D&D 3.5 campaign for a large group. I am fortunate to be running a campaign that has gotten extensive map support, because the 3.5 rules really deserve a full-blown tactical treatment, or else the fighters are missing out on too much potential fun. It also keeps the wizards and rogues more honest by requiring them to detail with tactical challenges when aiming spells and flanking opponents. This time around, I keep the miniatures affordable by instead pasting color pictures onto wooden nickels with a craft glue.

We never used them for real either. Except for one guy I called the stainless steel thief, because whenever something happened to his character he would say he wasn't where it happened. He'd tell me I misunderstood what he said and that he was on the other side of the room and that he couldn't be hit from there. THAT guy got a miniature and laid it down on the graph paper.

As best I can tell the mapping and the movement of minis, even if each person is simply moving their own in real time, detracts from the imagination part of the game. It's hard to evoke the feeling of someone slogging through knee-deep water on a cold day when they're worried about drawing the door in the far corner of the room.

S.

Sagrilarus wrote: We never used them for real either. Except for one guy I called the stainless steel thief, because whenever something happened to his character he would say he wasn't where it happened. He'd tell me I misunderstood what he said and that he was on the other side of the room and that he couldn't be hit from there. THAT guy got a miniature and laid it down on the graph paper.

As best I can tell the mapping and the movement of minis, even if each person is simply moving their own in real time, detracts from the imagination part of the game. It's hard to evoke the feeling of someone slogging through knee-deep water on a cold day when they're worried about drawing the door in the far corner of the room.

S.

Dragon magazine had a nice slang term for that kind of player: alignment = Chaotic Everywhere.

As my previous job was going under, I printed off nearly a copier paper box full of full-color, pre-made maps for my 3.5 campaign (the excellent City of Ptolus, by Monte Cook). So instead of pausing to draw maps, I slap down the pre-printed map sections as they encounter them, pausing only to slap down scratch paper to cover sections of the map section that they can't see yet. The players love it. I suppose that the maps limit imagination, but they also provide a lot of clarity.

We've been playing the Starter Set adventure, with a couple of copies of the new Handbook.

Best version of D&D ever. It really feels like AD&D, but with ideas from all the other editions which some reasonable balance, and JUST enough going on. It isn't that much more complex that AD&D to play, and really doesn't want to be played with minis. You can, but it works like AD&D, and you can fudge things left and right without breaking things.

I was unhappy with the preview rules which were so very rough.

There is really only one D&D clone I'd throw against it which is 13th Age. That one is kind of a cross between FATE and D&D 4. The D&D 4 is mostly in how powers are structured, and is pretty simialr in that way to D&D 5.

Where 13th Age gets interesting is:
1. BUCKETS of dice. We had some 200+ HP hits in our game.
2. Variable class difficulties. The classes range from dirt simple (Barbarian), to psychotically tricky (Cleric), to a complete bag of crazy (Monk).