New Heroscape? With the Magic the Gathering label?

Shucks, and here I was thinking that publisher's owed us gamers reprints of our favorite games. My reality is torn and if I can't have everything I want right when I want it then my passion for this hobby is dead.

Barnes never was a very good brown coat, was he?

shut_up_and_take_my_money.jpg

Edit: Do you know what I'd give for a set that gave me a Serra Angel and a Shivan Dragon and a Royal Assassin and an Air Elemental? Holy shit.

I'm in.

Michael Barnes wrote: Here's the harsh reality. Compared to the market share, brand recognition and player base that the Magic: The Gathering name commands, all of the above in regard to Heroscape may as well be quite literally ZERO.

I hate to break it to you (I'll be gentle), but the truth is that Heroscape- 11 years after release- may as well not ever have been published for an entire generation of game players. The number of people "clamoring" for any kind of reprint of Heroscape or a revival of the Heroscape brand is, again, comparatively ZERO when viewed through the kinds of sales projections and revenue that a company like Hasbro or WOTC expects. It doesn't matter if there are 10,000 people out there that would buy $500 worth of Heroscape product day one. They want 10,000,000 people buying $50 worth of product on day one.

Heroscape _failed_ outside of a devoted cult that bought enough to keep it going for a few years, but the currency of the brand is dead in the water at this point. It's irrelevant, regardless if a hundred people showed up at Gen Con with their collections or whatever.

Putting the Magic brand on this game- a Craig Van Ness design- is smart business. Way smarter than some hodge-podge sci-fi setting that has zero resonance with a mainstream audience. It's smarter than applying D&D to it, which has competing products on the market. And Magic has NEVER had anything quite like this, which means it could open up an entirely new product line with the Magic name- I think it's actually kind of overdue for them to do something like this.

I know everybody hates Hasbro and Magic, but this is the right way to do this- buzz is already good on it, Magic players and board gamers are interested. If it had been a Heroscape reprint/reboot announcment, I would have shrugged and not really cared. Like a large percentage of the gaming hobby and virtually 100% of the mainstream market.

Not trying to continue my role as old-school hard-charger, but this post is mostly bs.

I'm not sure any of us have the knowledge to claim what WotC deemed a success for Heroscape, but I'd hardly think that six years of selling product is a failure. Maybe the multiple base sets is the best indicator at relaunching a failed brand, but outside of that I'm not sure how we can call the line a fail. Regardless, it may be unfair to attempt to compare heroscape against one of the big three of fantasy gaming (I think we can agree on d&d, warhammer, and magic) unless WotC was looking to add this as a fourth to the pantheon (and who wouldn't want to have that fourth slot?). Still, comparing the two solely as brands doesn't seem right. Was HeroQuest a failure?Talisman?

I also find the idea that Magic players want in on this to be a bit of a stretch. I'd hazard a guess that fans of Magic would be more into trying another ccg over a boardgame. I could be wrong but I doubt Magic players are into the game for the 'riveting' universe. Even if the world of Magic is strong, I still say it's a similar gameplay that Magic players would prefer. Anecdotal, but similar, I know _many_ warhammer players that have dabbled in warmachine and _none_ that went in on warhammer discwars.

And wait...aren't most here excited because of the idea of a HS2 moreso than a Magic board game? The title and several posts indicate as so. What's really giving this game a second look against all the minis skirmish games that have been very recently derided...the fact that you get to play in the magic universe or that it looks like heroscape?

I feel this post about HS would be entirely different had this new game not been announced. My kids are a few years older than yours and I've watch you chart a very similar path through games as I did with mine. From kid friendly euros to crap like heroica...another year or two down the line was going to have you looking for heroscape to play with them. When that iniviteably happened I would guess there'd be an ERP level of fever going on about how great it is and they just don't make'em the same anymore... all similar to the championing of ERP games...and you would be right. As a 29 year old when HS hit it did nothing for me...as a father playing with a 4 and 7 year old, it's the best game we have.

That leads to my last point. These games appear to be different enough for me to pass on this entirely. Not because I already have HS but because this doesn't appear to offer the same level of 'fun'.

First, if there is card play, I'm guessing this will be the heads-down yin to HS's fist-pumping yang. (Did I mention, my 4 year old can join us in heroscape?)

Second, unless I'm misunderstanding the terrain, I don't see how this can stack up to the 3d battlefields that we build with heroscape.

Third, the setting here appears to be generic fantasy with 'serious' (ie: embarrassing) illustrations. It can't even remotely compare with heroscape's blend of childhood icons (knights! Ninjas! Robots! Cowboys! Army men!)

You do have the benefit of this new Magic game coming out though. It being new means a bunch of folks will be buying in, wanting to talk/read about it, and justifying all their spending...and that's fine. However, I think it's shortsighted to run down HS like this when very likely it's the game you'll really wish you were playing.

Good post, (Jeff?) White.

On the one hand, I actually was (am?) excited about playing a Magic board game, with the planeswalkers and creatures from the card game; I like the idea of grafting the color wheel onto a board game, and it's fun, for me, to see recognizable creatures, cards, and abilities in a different context.

On the other hand, as Jeff White said: when matched directly against HEROSCAPE?!? Forget it, Heroscape's theme is WAY cooler. I actually have a hard time imagining buying this, given that I've got a pretty sizeable Heroscape collection. I know *exactly* which one will be more fun for my kids and will spark way more creative play as toys.

If Heroscape didn't exist or I didn't have a ton of it, I'd be really excited about this.

the hardcore Magic players I know are very much into the fluff. They talk about the different worlds and characters much more than I would imagine was possible.

And while HS may have made a lot of money, it all depends on whether or not their designers, graphic artists, playtesters, and so on can make something that's even more profitable. I believe the same happened with Dreamblade which - I think - sold quite well, but just not well enough.

Funny thing is, I think the Heroscape theme is lame. But this one is even lame-r!

mads b. wrote: the hardcore Magic players I know are very much into the fluff. They talk about the different worlds and characters much more than I would imagine was possible.

Yes. I've played Magic since 1994, I've never delved into the story lines, but I certainly know the plot points. It's true, HS is cooler, but playing as these characters is really appealing to me because I know who they are.

I'm excited about the prospect of this possibly being a hit and more planeswalkers being added, I'm excited that maybe if it's a hit there will be some kind of organised play because wizards already has the infrastructure in place, and if it bombs horribly I'm excited to use these characters in HS, D&DAS, and Warhammer Quest.

Mr. White makes some good points, but I think he overlooks Mr. Barnes' primary thrust -- Hasbro removes the first three digits from their sales numbers on their spreadsheets. "Success" is measured strictly in units and dollars from their perspective, and Heroscape wrung itself out. I bought a lot of expansions at K-Mart in the bargains bin. The closest I've seen to a perfect game, but it was done. You could argue they shouldn't have gone into Dungeons and Dragons material at the end of it which is an odd fit at best.

The take-away from that is that there's still a fundamentally strong core mechanic that can be used for other purposes (plus the pieces interlocking, buildable map though that seems elementary in the snapshots), and retheming to Magic seems to be a reasonable choice. My guess is that the game isn't a straight port, but Hasbro is using a known-success to create a new revenue stream, one that cozies up to Magic.

So here's a question I'll throw onto the table -- is MtGeroscape intended as the second purchase, or the first? Is the idea to get Magic players to buy the tabletop game as a follow-on, or is it to provide an introduction to Magic for young players? I could see it either way.

S.

Well after that video I'm a little less enthused, since it seems clear that the terrain is in no meaningful way meant to approach the level of Heroscape interactivity. I still think the game looks cool, but if it's not going to really amp up the terrain aspects, it just reminds me that I have 5 sets of Dungeon Command crying to be played.

Which also makes me think that this is probably the final nail in the Dungeon Command coffin.

THe game is a year out. The terrain could change. If they've got gameplay ironed out, maybe that's the last thing they're working on.

Dungeon Command is pretty badass, though.

Sagrilarus wrote:

So here's a question I'll throw onto the table -- is MtGeroscape intended as the second purchase, or the first? Is the idea to get Magic players to buy the tabletop game as a follow-on, or is it to provide an introduction to Magic for young players? I could see it either way.

Nothing says it can't be both.

With my armchair understanding of Wizards' business practice; I anticipate a Kaijudo Strategy Board Game in 2019.