Batman Kickstarter (w/discussion of FOMO sales method)

They should rename the game Batman, the Shelf Toad.

Msample wrote: They should rename the game Batman, the Shelf Toad.

Batman fought the Shelf Toad in the original Detective Comics #117. Now a collector's item, as it had 3 variant covers and Batgirl's favorite recipes.

Frohike wrote:

Michael Barnes wrote: How will any of this content get the attention it deserves. It takes most games YEARS after release to curate this much material.

The trend of 100% KS exclusive products is fragmenting an already niche community into smaller silos of fandom that cannot grow, spread, or deepen. They're like brightly exploding stars that are all rapidly imploding into black holes, and the hobby is going darker for it.

Who will care about these games in a couple of years outside of whatever diminishing enclave of owners manages to sustain interest & discussion in a fan forum somewhere? Will designers really get better in this echo chamber, or will publishers begin to drive the evolution of ideas that hit the market? Will designs continue to evolve and cross-pollinate? How is this possible when the dreck and the treasure all command the same attention, enthusiasm, and multi-million dollar funding?

It's impoverishing reviews, which become increasingly pointless and pre-invested as the people who already own the product don't need a review, yet games criticism still mostly lives in this sphere so its quality also takes a hit, at best negotiating an awkward line between preaching to a choir or critiquing something that has already been validated with 100% funding.

I really don't like where this is going in the long term.

This is a very sobering perspective. I don't disagree, but I also don't think the sky is falling.

I'm 43 years old. I'm not making a lot of new friends, and that's not unique. Ask any sociologist. I have my tribe of confidants, associates, and colleagues and we enjoy our company together. We play games and we play them deeply. Some are newer titles, some are older. We don't need BGG or Kickstarter popularity to validate our interests. All of us enjoy gaming in IPs, but it's never mandatory.

Here's what I know: I have no regrets Kickstarting Batman, Conan, Cthulhu Wars, or DreadBall.

I play DreadBall more than any other game. Period. I have a small enclave of insular friends that shared the investment. We started a private league, and we've been playing monthly (and then some) for five years. It's a diverse group between hard core gamers and socialites. Everyone has a blast and we enjoy our bizarre language and code speak while in public places. Our wives think we're nuts.

During this time, I've done my best to run regional tournaments. 18 events over 5 years, and unfortunately - I only ever see the same 16-18 people. Tournament observation? There's a lot of X-Wing and MTG players out there. But that's another post...

Conan is also played with insularity. But even smaller. I only have two buddies that really enjoy reading Howard. We get together after reading a particular story, and play it's inspired scenario. It's like a book club for my sword and sorcery buds.

I suspect Batman will have similar reception. Except a lot more of my friends read/watch Batman than Conan.

Cthulhu Wars seemingly casts a wider net. Though I prefer to play with Lovecraft readers, those who have not still gravitate to the big plastic and accessible rules.

I do regret backing most projects from CMON. I was mostly attracted by the miniatures (go figure), but I've found their game play to be generally mediocre at best. Over, and over again. Blood Rage has been a sole exception, and it took Eric L. three attempts to polish that design. I'll play Rising Sun at some point this year.

Lastly, I like painting miniatures. I've learned a lot while painting 26 teams for DreadBall, Space Hulk, TWD, Earth Reborn, Fury of Dracula, Wiz-War, and Heroquest. I'm only starting to chip away at Conan. And Batman looks very fun to paint. I'm anxious to paint Cthulhu Wars, but I want to first sharpen my airbrushing skills. The hobby aspect is important to me.*

*There's more for me to mentally unpack regarding prices paid and amount of table time a game receives. But the equation is always fuzzy for me because I consider the plastic components as an enjoyable painting activity.

^ Great post, Andrew!

These sort of life experience threads seem to be why I continue to hang around here.

Often times I post things at F:AT (culling collections, not buying IPs, etc) as more of a personal, mental exercise than anything else. I often wonder if I come across as a jackass judging how people should consume and game. It's really not the intent.

Sounds to me like you've got a great set-up of friends and you have a great gauge on what will and won't get played. I'm also 43, and the comment about not making a lot of new friends rings true. All my best gaming buds have moved around the country. I've recently dipped my toe into the local AoS scene, and these guys seem really cool, but I wonder if I'll ever end up bonding as closely with them as I have my other friends. With kids, job, life, etc I don't expect to be able to invest the same amount of time into this new group, so assume there's no chance it will be as close.

Anyway, i hope you guys have a great time with Batman, and wish I could join one of your DB tourneys at some point.

Carry on!

JW,
Same to you brother. The world is too small for us not to cross paths at some point. Either you'll bring your clan to DC for some sightseeing, or we'll bump into each other at a convention. I don't think Texas is on my agenda unless the Mrs. is itchin' for some music in Austin.
AW

drewcula wrote: Conan is also played with insularity. But even smaller. I only have two buddies that really enjoy reading Howard. We get together after reading a particular story, and play it's inspired scenario. It's like a book club for my sword and sorcery buds.

I don't really have anything to add other than that I think that sounds fucking rad. I clearly need better friends.

I told myself that I would watch all these damned video previews for Batman and video reviews for Conan and their other game, then make a decision about backing this Kickstarter. And I realized three things:

1. I really fucking hate video reviews. I can read quickly and process a lot of information, but video reviews (and podcasts) force me to absorb information at the pace of somebody talking, and I can't ask this person questions to clarify the points that interest me, or ask them to skip over the really obvious stuff. So I just couldn't be bothered to waste even a couple of hours of my life going through all those videos. Learn to type, video reviewers, or prepare to be ignored.

2. I really dread the idea of having 100+ more miniatures to paint. I'm in this hobby to play games, not paint tiny little statues.

3. Even if this Batman game was great, it will never get played enough to justify the cost to buy it, let alone the time and cost to paint it. More likely it would be the shelf toad that haunts me to my grave.

I hope this is a good game, so that Drewcula and the other backers enjoy it, but I will pass on this Kickstarter.

Shellhead wrote: I1. I really fucking hate video reviews. I can read quickly and process a lot of information, but video reviews (and podcasts) force me to absorb information at the pace of somebody talking, and I can't ask this person questions to clarify the points that interest me, or ask them to skip over the really obvious stuff.

Complete threadjack but this, totally, this. I do not understand why video reviews are so popular, for those exact reasons. Just baffling.

Of course I'm biased because I produce written reviews and I've watched interest in them plummet as I've invested more and more time in learning how to write better. It's heartbreaking. But it's also genuine confusion: I never watch video reviews because they take ages and make it hard to double-check or go-over to confirm information so I find them next to useless.

What's the point of video reviews? What's the appeal? Why the love?

I can see the appeal of making a video review. No typing, no spell-checking, and no need to organize your thoughts into sensible paragraphs. Even better if you are trying to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. Just turn on a device, unbox the game, and say whatever comes to mind.

It's difficult for me to comprehend, but a lot of people don't like to read. They haven't read a book since they got out of school, and they would much rather watch tv or a movie for entertainment. You would think that reading is a necessity for a board gamer, but maybe video reviews enable them to learn how to play games without even reading the rule book.

I detest video reviews. But, I think between us we average out to about age fifty. Kids under 25 live on YouTube, want nothing to do with written material. Most request rules explanation videos to be included with new games now.

MattDP wrote:

Shellhead wrote: I1. I really fucking hate video reviews. I can read quickly and process a lot of information, but video reviews (and podcasts) force me to absorb information at the pace of somebody talking, and I can't ask this person questions to clarify the points that interest me, or ask them to skip over the really obvious stuff.

Complete threadjack but this, totally, this. I do not understand why video reviews are so popular, for those exact reasons. Just baffling.

Of course I'm biased because I produce written reviews and I've watched interest in them plummet as I've invested more and more time in learning how to write better. It's heartbreaking. But it's also genuine confusion: I never watch video reviews because they take ages and make it hard to double-check or go-over to confirm information so I find them next to useless.


What's the point of video reviews? What's the appeal? Why the love?

Even more useless than video reviews: UNBOXING videos.

Fuck me with a rusty nail; I've seen links for ones that are 20 minutes plus. WTF ? I can unwrap a game and glance at the components in less than two minutes. That's why they invented photos/images.

Video reviews are merely tools for those too fucking to edit their own incoherent thoughts.

But we need videos to see folks standing in front of their walls of games. How else can we determine reviewer cred?

Unboxing videos are brag-fests, and the single laziest thing you can do with a video camera. That's why you see them so much. You can knock them out in half an hour, upload them more or less unedited, and get the accolades of . . . dozens? . . . of adoring fans the world over.

Sagrilarus wrote: Unboxing videos are brag-fests, and the single laziest thing you can do with a video camera. That's why you see them so much. You can knock them out in half an hour, upload them more or less unedited, and get the accolades of . . . dozens? . . . of adoring fans the world over.

Know what's even better? There are "Instagram reviewers" who get comped games just to post pictures.

There was, for me, a discernible moment several years ago that made me say "huh" and laugh a little when it seemed like practically everyone was trying to "brand" their reviews in order to become a "thing" in the hobby. I guess, in retrospect, it was just part of the professionalization of the hobby. I do see some value in the better video reviews (I'm thinking Drive-Thru, for one, or Marco's) in illustrating concepts in ways that are sometimes harder to do verbally, and there are others, like SU&SD, that I find entertaining and sometimes informative. But, yeesh, unboxing. Talk about the nadir of analytical content and the acme of consumerism.