Do you guys believe in gateway games?

Here's my understanding of a Gateway Game.

Last year my wife and I went to stay with some friends of ours in London. I took Settlers of Catan just in case anyone fancied trying a game. We ended up playing it and our friends loved it and ended up buying a copy for themselves the next day. They introduced it to some of their friends who also loved it and ended up getting a copy. Because of that first game of Catan there's now a new pool of 4 couples in London who actually get together for gaming evenings who weren't gamers before. Sure, they stick to light stuff like Pandemic and Citadels and will probably never move on to things like Descent, but hell, they're still games right?

Now I didn't take Catan along with the express purpose of evangelising about board games and deliberately trying to 'convert' unbelievers to the way of the board game. I took it because I enjoy playing board games and if we were at a loose end perhaps we could all have an enjoyable evening playing it. Catan's a good choice for an evening like that and pretty much fits the bill as to what I'd call a Gateway game.

On the other hand, if I'd pulled Twilight Imperium out on that first night - well, common sense tells me it just wouldn't have worked.

Even if they hadn't gone on to play other board games on their own initiative I'd still describe Catan as a Gateway game. Arguing about the exact definition of what a Gateway Game means on a site called Fortress Ameritrash that deals with things that aren't wholly American or actually trash as defined by the dictionary seems a bit pointless

If you use the definition that a gateway game is any game that introduces someone to hobby gaming and makes them want to play more, then all of the above games are gateway games, which to me indicates that any game has the potential to be an individual person's "gateway" into hobby games.

You got it, sister. There's no reason MoV couldn't be that game for a very large number of people, but it isn't. Certain games are that game for a ton of people. SoC is one of those games simply because people are more likely to see it, hear about it, and try it. It has nothing to do with gameplay, or difficulty, or anything other than what you just described.

If you use the definition that gateway games are a category of game that meet some limited set of criteria optimized to get people started in hobby gaming

Not necessarily a limited set of criteria. If see enough people reporting that Heroscape was the game that "brought them back," or "got them into" gaming (which are phrases people do use, I didn't make them up), I'd call it a gateway game. Not because it's simple, or because it's particularly suited to introduce people to skirmish games, but because it did introduce a lot of people to board games.

Either way, in my experience, the term "Gateway Game" encompasses such are large number of games that it becomes meaningless.

Well, like I said, it's not a very useful term, but it's a bit handier than "more mainstream hobby game."

kookoobah wrote:

Is there a specific game that you own that is your go-to game when you need to get somebody started into gaming? Sometimes I make the mistake of going with something that I think they might like, instead of going with the classic Catan option.

It's just so tempting to get somebody started with Descent.

I've stated many people with Doom quite successfully. Whereas some people I know hated TTR/Catan right off the bat... there's just no way to tell.

I have to add that my baggage over the term "Gateway Game" comes from being subjected to and seeing other people subjected to the "classic gateway games." It seems like whenever someone approaches a group of gamers, and gets tagged as newbie, some well meaning gamer will assume the n00b has shit for brains and immediately reach into his milk crate for one of the the following Go-to-Gateway games:

Yeah, see, I honestly have a hard time believing this sort of thing when I hear it because I've never personally encountered it. Even the rudest, most uptight, game slobs I've met in this town (and I've met some bad ones) wouldn't behave this way. To be honest, it's so friggin' wierd that I've always just assumed most of that stuff on BGG is done in jest (and I still say a lot of it has to be), or that the stories you guys tell are wild exaggerations for the sake of humor. And anyway, why would anyone think this would work?

And, that milk crate thing, that is a joke, right?

I've stated many people with Doom quite successfully. Whereas some people I know hated TTR/Catan right off the bat... there's just no way to tell.

Exactly. I've had no trouble starting people off with Descent, that's what the newer members of our group played with us first, and they both ran out and bought it afterwards. If you think they'll like hacking up beastmen and skeletons, they're probably going to like Descent. If not, you might want to pick something else, but don't pick something simple just because it's simple. Have you ever liked a game for that reason alone?

Besides, they're probably not ever going to play another game with you regardless of what you pick anyway, so just pick what you want to play.

ubarose wrote:

Milk crate isn't a joke. Milk crate is what you use to haul your games to open gaming days and cons. Although the giant plastic storage bins are getting to be more popular.

Absolutely. A milk crate is the right size to carry three board games of a size commonly used by Fantasy Flight, like Fury of Dracula, Game of Thrones, or Arkham Horror. While I use the giant plastic storage bins at home for storing my less-played games safely, I now use a smaller plastic bin to transport games if the weather might include rain or snow. That size bin holds a milk crate worth of games, plus extra room for my Arkham card holders.

mjl1783 wrote:

Yeah, see, I honestly have a hard time believing this sort of thing when I hear it because I've never personally encountered it. Even the rudest, most uptight, game slobs I've met in this town (and I've met some bad ones) wouldn't behave this way.

I was just re-reading my account of snobbery by gamer commandos earlier in this thread, and on second thoughts I think I overstated things a bit. What I called elitism could just as easily be interpreted in neutral terms as folks just trying to be helpful by suggesting games they think others will like. The critique of the idea of a 'gateway game' is still useful, though, because it reminds people not to jump to conclusions about the interests and capacities of others.

Yeah, but they don't actually carry around like a n00b-specific crate do they?

Gemblo (Blokus with Hexes) and Geschenkt, and Can't Stop are my choice for getting non-gamers to play.
(The Atlanta Loop meetup has people that go to socialize where games are being played.)

They are quite fine games in their own regard. (Blokus is actually quite a bit deeper than a lot of the Euro lite fair.) Can't Stop is also much deeper than its rules imply.

Tales is the other good one. The rules are SO simple. The actual encounter system is extremely unintuitive, but you only need one person who understands it to play.

Of course any co-op game is good, as long as people can remember to actually allow the newbies to play.