Comic Fans: What is so good about the LoEG?

Comic Fans: I beseech you - what is so good about the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. One of my friends, a very big comic book fan, insisted that I read the series. So much so, that he bought it for me for my birthday last year. I finally got around to reading it, and thought it was pretty awful. What am I missing?

The premise is good, but is completely wasted on a horrible story full of absurd cliches. I like the pastiche of Victorian-era literary sources, but other than names and a few themes, the references seem wasted. Okay, you take the characters from literary works and stick them together as an adventure team, but why not give them an adventure that is interesting?

The stories were pretty bad. Steal from Fu Manchu and then defeat Dr. Moriarty who was the leagues secret boss. Okay. Cliched secret weapon story. The war of the worlds aspect of the second book could have been interesting, but it was botched so badly. I'm glad he referenced John Carter of Mars and Captain Gullivar, but they were only a side-note. A whole story dedicated to their fighting the war of the worlds monsters could have been interesting.

I'm not trying to just whine online, I'm just really curious as to why the series is so highly regarded? It's a novel concept, but really boils down to generic superhero antics.

I've never really read much in the way of comics, so maybe I just can't take them seriously as a medium. I know everyone is all ablaze about the Watchmen, but after reading the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, I think I'll pass.

Please, help me understand what I'm missing. Am I missing out on some great works of fiction hidden among the superman and spiderman comics?

Oh god, and I never want to see a comic book sex scene again. It made me embarrassed to even read it.

Whoa! Don't give up on Watchmen just because you didn't like LoEG. Watchmen, as well as From Hell, are masterpieces. I don't think anyone would say that about LoEG. Not quite *everything* that Moore touches is golden.

dragonstout wrote:

Whoa! Don't give up on Watchmen just because you didn't like LoEG. Watchmen, as well as From Hell, are masterpieces. I don't think anyone would say that about LoEG. Not quite *everything* that Moore touches is golden.

Well, that's how it has been hyped up to me. People complained about how awful the movie was and how much better the comic was. I hate to know how bad the movie has to be then.

I'm not going to convince you (and I'm not sure that's even useful) but here are a couple of the reasons why I like it:

Not everyone is into LoEG but I am a huge fan. I love the stories, yeah they are sort of cliched, but not entirely. Everything is done with a knowledgeable wink, I was aware throughout the entire series of this ominous wink. The way it seems to take the turns you expect but it always surprises with it's bizarre, interesting takes on classic characters (where he takes the symbolic meaning of the character and perverts it for his own ends), it's oddly unapologetic script, it's brutal honesty of the filth of the time, it's unromantic gaze at our past (both literary and historical), and it's unique spin on how to keep comic book super-hero teams interesting. This, and the notion of writing as if it were a Victorian Boy's adventure periodical, informed by the attitudes and opinions of today kept it very fresh for me. It pretends to be racist, sexist... but obviously isn't, it makes fun of England while pretending to adore it... and it's funny too.

The Art is a huge one for me. Kevin O'neil has a real eye for the Grotesque and can cram in a thousand references and still keep the picture looking unpretentious. There's a hint of John Caldwell (an early Gary Larson type comic artist) and Edward Gorey, and Ralph Stedman but he is still his own man, a vital artist and this is his Magnum Opus. The stories are typical adventure stories with weird bits shoved in there but the world is incredibly tight (you'd have to read Volume three to know that though, where there is a comic and then the characters open a book, then you do, and back and forth with you reading the same book as the characters... plus a 3D section at the end... mind blowing).

The problem some people have (say, uh, my wife) is that the book is very very naughty. Rape, drug addiction, racism, sexism, that weird all girls school with the slutty headmistress. Not everyone can handle that stuff. stay the hell away from Lost Girls, I'll tell ya that! You may not like the sex, I find it funny... especially the invisible sex!

There are probably way more references then you caught.

www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/7160/league1.html

Check out this site where Jess Nevins has done a fantastic job compiling as many of them as fans can keep track of. It is bigger then the book itself.

Suffice to say that League is nothing like Watchmen, which is nothing like Swamp Thing ( read it and you'll know where Neil Gaiman got most of his material/ideas for Sandman), which is nothing like Promethea, which is nothing like A Small Killing... Moore, if nothing else, is probably the most versatile writer working in Comics today... maybe ever.

Just looked up at how much I wrote... holy shit, you didn't actually read all that did you. Sorry man.

Like every comic with the exception of watchmen LOEG is overrated.
Volume 1 is a fun adventure yarn. A classic? No, but worth a read none the less.
Volume 2 was horrible. What a cynical mess.

It's a 'classic' because it's Alan Moore. That's it. Comic fans are like the eurogamer's of the literary world - pretentious full of themselves twats. There are some good funnybooks out there but the vast majority is fucking drek. No matter how bad some parts of the X-men movies got they never reach the depths of shit the comics regularly do.

Anyway league is way overhyped. Watchmen is better but you may as well just go see the film then if you enjoyed it read it. V for Vendetta just watch the film as well.

Count Orlok wrote:

Well, that's how it has been hyped up to me. People complained about how awful the movie was and how much better the comic was. I hate to know how bad the movie has to be then.

and sheez that movie is REALLY REALLY bad. any stupid comic is bound to be much better....

From Hell is a really great comic, I haven't seen the movie. FH is hard to compare to superhero comics because it is so different. V for Vendetta is one of my favorites, I like it as much as Watchmen. I didn't really like LoEG beyond the concept of it. Felt like a missed opportunity.

LEAGUE is _good_ Alan Moore, but not _great_ Alan Moore. It's a cut above his bill paying crap (and there's actually a lot of that).

The goodness of it to me rests on two key things 1) The idea of transposing the 20th century concept of "super hero teams" on characters from Victorian/Early 20th century literature literature is kind of brilliant- it's very cool, and it fits totally into his worldview. I like the shared continuity he ties together so you get John Carter, Mina Harker, Randolph Carter, and Moriarty all existing in a logical crossover. It's fun. 2) Kevin O'Neil's artwork is fucking awesome. "An eye for the grotesque", that's a great way of putting it. The second and third books were noticably weaker though, although THE BLACK DOSSIER has a really cool format.

You kind of know when Alan Moore is totally "on"- WATCHMEN, V FOR VENDETTA, FROM HELL, SWAMP THING, THE KILLING JOKE, VOICE OF THE FIRE...but likewise, you can easily tell when he's off. LEAGUE is almost "on".

Although I believe that Alan Moore is the most talented writer to ever work on comics, League is not that great. Yes, the concept is excellent, but the execution is nothing special. And I really despise the artwork. And I thought that the movie was okay, again, good concept, average delivery.

Yeah, LoEG is OK. The concept is pretty fun, but it's nothing extraordinary. I didn't finish the second book, because as mentioned, my wife saw the sex scene and was totally repulsed. I don't feel like I missed out on much though.

Watchmen is the best from Alan Moore. V for Vendetta is pretty great, but not as good. From Hell is on my list, but it looks pretty mammoth.

Moore isn't my all-time fav comic writer though. I'd probably give that title to Brian K. Vaughn.

The thing that I enjoy most about LoEG is the depth of the world. In addition to all the major characters, and the book events, there's always more stuff to discover in there. The Jess Nevins annotations are interesting, if you're lazy like me and don't feel like running the stuff down yourself.

Put me on the "art not so great" side of the argument.

As for the movie, it appears to have been put together by someone who cannot count. Tom Sawyer? in his 20s? in 1899? Wrong. There are flashes of a good movie in there, but the overall result sucks.

metalface13 wrote:

Yeah, LoEG is OK. The concept is pretty fun, but it's nothing extraordinary. I didn't finish the second book, because as mentioned, my wife saw the sex scene and was totally repulsed. I don't feel like I missed out on much though.

Watchmen is the best from Alan Moore. V for Vendetta is pretty great, but not as good. From Hell is on my list, but it looks pretty mammoth.

Moore isn't my all-time fav comic writer though. I'd probably give that title to Brian K. Vaughn.

If she is not okay with the sex scene in LoEG 2, better not show her LoEG 3 (Black Dossier)...

Michael Barnes wrote:

LEAGUE is _good_ Alan Moore, but not _great_ Alan Moore. It's a cut above his bill paying crap (and there's actually a lot of that).

The goodness of it to me rests on two key things 1) The idea of transposing the 20th century concept of "super hero teams" on characters from Victorian/Early 20th century literature literature is kind of brilliant- it's very cool, and it fits totally into his worldview. I like the shared continuity he ties together so you get John Carter, Mina Harker, Randolph Carter, and Moriarty all existing in a logical crossover. It's fun. 2) Kevin O'Neil's artwork is fucking awesome. "An eye for the grotesque", that's a great way of putting it. The second and third books were noticably weaker though, although THE BLACK DOSSIER has a really cool format.

You kind of know when Alan Moore is totally "on"- WATCHMEN, V FOR VENDETTA, FROM HELL, SWAMP THING, THE KILLING JOKE, VOICE OF THE FIRE...but likewise, you can easily tell when he's off. LEAGUE is almost "on".

I hate to sound like an pale-chick-in-black English Lit grad student, but as far as I can tell, the whole point of League was to humanize classic Victorian English literary heroes and use them to poke holes in the English view of the Victorian era--the last time England was truly "great" with the "Sun Never Setting on the Empire" and all that. The adventures themselves were tangential to the interaction between the characters. Presenting Alan Quartermain as a broken down junkie (omitted from the movie) was essentially offering up the inverse of C.S. Lewis' Aslan--another overblown allegorical take on Christian England. Moore did this better with his send up of Richard III-style Fascist England in VfV, but it's the same basic approach. Mina Harker was presented as a counterpoint between professed Victorian mores and "feminine values" and the sexuality inherent in vampire characters [and here, the movie goes the other way--not enough Victorian primness in favor of oversexing Harker to death.] Mr. Hyde, like Harker, was also a character study in animal drives, though this time focusing on the duality of Victorian "maleness" (and Victorian justice to a degree). The heart of his character comes out in his *raping* the Invisible Man to death (as vengeance for his assualt on Harker)--oddly, that was something they opted not to include in the film

And, yea, it is pretentious as hell; one of my favorites, but unbelievably pretentious. I'm also in the camp who believes that the artwork is utter crap. The images are great--and if Moore had only found someone who could actually draw, the books would have much better

I will say, however, that this, of all of Moore's stuff, is probably the most overwhelmingly "English"--most of the cultural and literary references are utterly meaningless to most Americans, even well-read ones. It's all very much about England's cultural view of itself...The movie, on the other hand, bears absolutely no resemblance to the books [though I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Peta Wilson as an oversexed redhead vampire....mmmmmmm, tasty!].

V was great but falls apart in the 3rd act, feeling like it has no where to go.
Haven't read from hell.

Dogmatix really nails it. It turns Victoriana on its head. Victorian England was fucked up, filthy place. Moore's exploring that, and in a remarkably cool way by invoking the "heroes and heroines" of that era. I liked it. And Hyde fucking the pervert Invisible man to death is a not very subtle jibe at their masculine mores.

I've read a lot of Moore's stuff and here's what I'd recommend without hesitation:
WATCHMEN.
SUPREME - STORY OF THE YEAR.
SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING.

Here's stuff worth reading:
LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN, VOL 1.
FROM HELL.
V FOR VENDETTA.
THE KILLING JOKE.

Here's some shitty stuff I read:
TOM STRONG.
PROMETHEA.
LOEG: BLACK DOSSIER.
LITTLE GIRLS.

...Haven't read anything else. I hear MARVEL/MIRACLE MAN was also good.

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Here's the deal with WATCHMEN--it was one of the first real postmodern comics. It that regard it was a fucking huge achievement. It's also an excellent read, period. Just the words on the page are a compelling story. It's really great, and happens to be a comic book.

That said, now that every goddamn hero in the universe is dealing with lawsuits and clothing problems and all that jazz it seems blasé. But WATCHMEN made that happen, not the other way around. That's worth respecting.