Iconic Musical Performers (MJ inspired thoughts)

So my wife and I were lamenting on the commute in this morning about how music used to be so great and carefree - lots of talent, etc. So we started thinking of what GREAT musical performers came from our young adolesence/adulthood which would roughly be 90s and 00s.

We came up with... Boys to Men? As good singers and lots of influence (plus the girls screaming/swooning factor, which is crucial), this is what we could think of, but I cant help feeling like we're missing something. And maybe it's just that by nature, time has to go by to see these artists, but I'm not so sure.

Just to contextualize here's who we placed as Top Iconic Musical Performers of the past few decades (roughly):

50s- Elvis
60s- Beatles
70s- Stevie Wonder
80s- Michael Jackson
90s- Boys to Men?
00s- ????


Here's the basic factors we were judging by:
-good singer/musician
-influenced future artists
-crazy/obsessed fan base
-wide fan base/popular music
-timelessness (I feel like MJ is the most recent this can be applied to though)
-entertaining performances/theatrics/attitude/mystique

We were a little stumped by the 70s, because neither of us like too much from then, but I feel like Stevie's a pretty good fit. I'm not as familiar with him though.

So then, what think you all? Agree or disagree with the list? Got someone better to add to the 90s? Got anyone to add for 00s? or is that just too soon or do we not have anyone? I was saying that with the internet/technology not only do you not have to be a great singer to sell records, but SO MANY people can show the world what they can do and find at least some sizeable audience. It's so diluted now, that it's harder for one person/group to really shine and rise above the rest. Obviously this kinda saddened us. Who are we going to point to when our kids ask? Britney?

The 90's and 00's are really hard. No one genre of music was by far the most popular at the time, and even within a genre, no one musician or group was "it".

On the pop side, there were the Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls. *shudder*

Snoop Dog or Tupac were big icons in the hip-hop area. Or Vanilla Ice?

We were a little stumped by the 70s, because neither of us like too much from then, but I feel like Stevie's a pretty good fit. I'm not as familiar with him though.

You should be stumped. So was Quincy Jones when he talked about this same thing in a Sinatra Session video back in the 80's where Michael Jackson stopped by as well. You can add Sinatra to the 40's and Quincy Jones put Star Wars in the 70's. HA!

The 90's and 00's are really hard. More than one genre of music was by far the most popular at the time, and even within a genre, no one musician or group was "it".

This is because music has been fragmented by the internet. CD sales are down, downloading rules the day.

"Thriller" may never be topped as the biggest selling album.

I think for the 90s your best guesses are Kurt Cobain/Nirvana (who fall down a lot on the theatrics/all-round entertainer part), or Nine Inch Nails, (who don't as much). Nirvana sure sold a lot more records, and I think they had a bigger effect on the culture.

However, I can't describe the number of insufferable obsessed NIN fans I met back then.

And neither had anything like the levels of saturation of even Stevie Wonder, much less the other 3 big examples.

00s ? Good luck. Britney? Beyonce? Somebody like that.

I would have put Elton John on for the 70s and Madonna for the 80s.

Jackson's best works straddled the border -- Off the Wall was 79 I think and Thriller 82 or so. From the thrill-ride-should-have-died-in-a-volcano perspective I think Madonna had more of an impact on the culture, for whatever that is worth. She's produced nothing with the quality of Off the Wall though.

Thriller may be overcome in album sales eventually by Crosby's White Christmas, which continues to sell about 300,000 copies each December in spite of being more than fifty years old. Slow and steady may win the race.

Sag.

It's funny, when I heard the news yesterday at first it didn't really hit me. For the past 10 years or so, we've been watching MJ practically disintegrate before our eyes. All the bad press, all the child abuse allegations, all the freakish behavior...at first, I was almost like "well, it's not really a surprise" and I didn't really feel anything about it.

But then, when I got home from gaming last night I turned it on MTV and they were playing his videos. The first one I saw was "Billie Jean". I hadn't seen it in at least 15 years. And watching it, I remembered seeing it when I was a kid and how much I LOVED Michael Jackson. I remembered my friend's mom yelling out the door "Hey kids, "Thriller" is coming on" and we'd all go running in to watch it. And then there was the time my elementary school class sang "We Are the World" for a PTA meeting and I dressed up like Michael Jackson. At least as much as I could with my windbreaker sleeves rolled up, an Isotoner glove, and sunglasses.

I actually teared up a little, remembering the profound impact that Michael Jackson had on my life in the 1980s. He is one of the reasons I love music so much- it doesn't matter if it's The Fall, black metal, or Krautrock that I'm listening to. Michael Jackson's "Thriller" was the first album I ever bought. It even got me into horror and Vincent Price. Anybody who was a kid in the 1980s liked Michael Jackson. I don't care who you are or what you like now. It really was almost magical, and it's the closest thing anyone in my generation will ever get to experiencing something like The Beatles or Elvis firsthand.

No matter what he did or may have done in the last third of his life, no matter how fucked up he was, the fact remains that Michael Jackson is probably the LAST truly iconic musical performer we'll ever see- there's too much dilution, too much cynicism in music for a phenomenon like that to happen again that is the result of raw talent and appeal instead of marketing. He remains the most successful pop star _in history_, and if you go back and listen to "Off the Wall", "Thriller", "Bad", and the Jackson 5 stuff he was and always will be one of the most electrifying and exciting performers ever to walk on stage.

The tragedy isn't that he died, it's that we watched him fall apart. He was Ziggy Stardust, the leper messiah that got sucked up into his mind.

I'm going to listen to "Thriller" all day today. It's an incredible pop record, one of the greatest ever recorded. The songs on there are still timeless and well, thrilling.

Thriller may be overcome in album sales eventually by Crosby's White Christmas, which continues to sell about 300,000 copies each December in spite of being more than fifty years old. Slow and steady may win the race.

I think "White Christmas" is one of the biggest selling singles, not albums.

People tend to download individual songs more these days which may keep "Thriller" on top.

Sagrilarus wrote:

I would have put Elton John on for the 70s and Madonna for the 80s.

Jackson's best works straddled the border -- Off the Wall was 79 I think and Thriller 82 or so. From the thrill-ride-should-have-died-in-a-volcano perspective I think Madonna had more of an impact on the culture, for whatever that is worth. She's produced nothing with the quality of Off the Wall though.

Thriller may be overcome in album sales eventually by Crosby's White Christmas, which continues to sell about 300,000 copies each December in spite of being more than fifty years old. Slow and steady may win the race.

Sag.

Good call on Elton John, my wife mentioned him but we werent sure we could stuff him into the 70s category. Obviously there's spill over and it's not nice and neat, but whatever.

As for Madonna, we debated her for a while, but I think she still comes in second behind MJ in the 80s and isnt in the same league as Elvis, Beatles, MJ. Elton John is a better fit for the 70s in my opinion, but it's just because I know a lot more of his stuff.

Not Sure wrote:

I think for the 90s your best guesses are Kurt Cobain/Nirvana (who fall down a lot on the theatrics/all-round entertainer part), or Nine Inch Nails, (who don't as much). Nirvana sure sold a lot more records, and I think they had a bigger effect on the culture.

However, I can't describe the number of insufferable obsessed NIN fans I met back then.

And neither had anything like the levels of saturation of even Stevie Wonder, much less the other 3 big examples.

00s ? Good luck. Britney? Beyonce? Somebody like that.

Hmmm, I think I like your suggestion of Cobain/Nirvana. It's not perfect at all, but does check off a lot of the tick marks I'd set up. Hmmm.

You need to escape the confines of the continental US a bit - broaden your outlook

90s - Guns'n'Roses got pretty worldwide
80s/90s - U2
70s/80s - Bruce Springsteen
60s/70s - The Rolling Stones, The Who

Oops - the very obvious:

70s - ABBA


And not trying to be funny, but who the hell are Boys 2 Men ? - I was a different age to a lot of you guys in the 90s so if they were a boy band thing (sounds like it) then I wouldn't have even noticed them. I know the only boy band that mattered in the UK in the 90s were Take That and that famous Irish one too.

The problem today is that entertainment today is MUCH too dispersed over a lot of mediums and formats and people are simply exposed to more. The artists (?) that do well tend to be the more heavily marketed/groomed ones and not necessarily the more talented or iconic ones. There's so many "inputs" now, it's almost impossible for anyone to have the cultural impact of a Michael Jackson or Madonna. There's no trendsetters or moldbreakers because there's just too much information, so to speak.

I think Guns n' Roses is a great pick for the late 80's, not so much the 90s. The 90s definitely belong to Nirvana, like 'em or not. I'd actually count NWA and Run DMC as iconic, definitive acts too.

I'd say that the 80s were really the last decade where we had this kind of phenomenon. There really were a lot of iconic acts in that decade- part of it was because of MTV, it's almost like it was an explosion of iconicism since there was greater exposure. In the internet generation, that all overloaded and now it's almost impossible to match that level of popularity and fame.

Now, pop music in the west is practically just like pop music in Asian countries- all cute, harmless, manufacturered idol singers.

BTW- if we're not calling Bowie an iconic performer, then I quit.

My bad. Crosby's album is called Merry Christmas and sells about 300k per year.

Sag.

Michael Barnes wrote:

No matter what he did or may have done in the last third of his life, no matter how fucked up he was, the fact remains that Michael Jackson is probably the LAST truly iconic musical performer we'll ever see- there's too much dilution,

I defintely agree with this. Jackson (along with Prince) to me was the last great pop star. The beggining of the end of great pop stars. A truly great and impassioned voice (never a wink and sarcasm, he sounded like he meant every word, cheesy or not). He is also responsible for some of the greatest basslines ever... Billie Jean! It's simple but man what a groovin' bass line, it MAKES you move. His dancing is cool too but it's his voice that really gets me, more instantly identifiable then my own mothers and comletely free and flawless. What style!

As far as later generations are concerned I don't know if there truly is too much dilution or if I'm just too old. The pop music today sounds worse then it ever did to me. Man what I would give for an Al Jolson figure to appear again. It's a real shame in some ways as Pop Music can be a great genre when it's done right.

Public Enemy is as iconic as NWA or Run DMC but propbably more socially concious.

And yeah, the 90's do belong to Nirvana. I can't believe how many young students still come in with the Nevermind songbook and want to learn EVERY song in it. I don't mind since I always liked his slightly countrified singing style and generally if I'm teaching Nirvana I am happier then if I'm teaching Green Day or some other shit. But yesterday I must have taught Beat It and Billie Jean more times then I ever did in my whole life added together. Every student wanted to do Jackson yeaterday. That won't happen again.

If your picking Nirvana for the 90's then perhaps Radiohead for the 2000's (even Miley Cirus likes them!). Those pretentious whiny fucks have had quite the impact on Avant-Pop in the last decade.

Michael Barnes wrote:

I think Guns n' Roses is a great pick for the late 80's, not so much the 90s.

I'll bow to your fresher braincells from the time - 80s are a long way back and some of those years are still a bit hazy.

Michael Barnes wrote:

BTW- if we're not calling Bowie an iconic performer, then I quit.

No contest on that one either !

And good call on Prince - MJ, Madonna, and Prince were the mainstream pop 80s.