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TOPIC: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks?

When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 20:47 #113556

I know that a lot of people will answer either "Phantom Menace" or "during the Ewok parts," but I'm pretty sure the Star Wars franchise was irretrievably ruined before the end of the original movie. If Vader has The Force, and a special TIE fighter full of sophisticated sensor equipment, how could The Millennium Falcon sneak up on him? And why was Vader in a TIE fighter at all? Does the pope fly an F-15 in the Vatican Air Force?

Seriously, I think Star Wars died around the same instant as Biggs. The story needed the Errol Flynn lookalike Biggs because he was someone to whom we could compare Luke Skywalker, allowing us to reflect on the nature of Luke's heroism. Han Solo eventually took on that role instead, pushing Biggs almost completely out of the movie (is he there at all in the latest edits?). The problem with Han Solo, as opposed to Biggs, is that the audience *likes* Solo, and Luke doesn't compare favourably. If Han Solo sucked more, Luke would have seemed like less of a whiny ass, and the writers wouldn't have had to cook up that cringe-inducing incest angle to resolve the Luke-Han-Leia love triangle.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 20:54 #113558

Jake Lloyd - Phantom Menace. jarjar STILL doesn't get on my nerves anything like Jake Lloyd does. But at this point, i was still so bewildered by the awesome saber fight as well as the great podrace that I hadn't given up on Star Wars.

Then Attack of the Clones happened and 3P0 became the most horrible joke-teller ever. Every single time he spoke it was to make a cliche joke. At this point I fully gave up on Star Wars.


I think you're wrong to give up on Star Wars from Episode IV. A Special TIE Fighter does NOT have fancy sensor equipment. You can blame the Force if anything. Vader was pretty focused at the time anyway
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:07 #113563

Ewoks.

That and when I relaized that my favorite SW movie was not directed by Lucas.


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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:10 #113564

I was uneasy about Lando in The Empire Strikes Back, because the first black guy we see in the entire galaxy is a traitor. Then the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi were a huge red flag, but I was willing to give Lucas another chance based on the overall quality of the first two movies. But then later in Return of the Jedi, there were these truly stupid-looking black aliens... basically black people wearing oddly colorful prosthetic noses and ears. It was like somebody complained about Lando to George Lucas and he responded with deliberately cheap costuming for the black aliens. At that point I was done with the Star Wars frachise, and Jar-Jar "Little Black Sambo" Binks did nothing to win me back.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:17 #113568

When I saw the first episode for the second time, maybe 20 years after its original release. Nothing gets stale faster than old special effects, but hey...it was awesome....once. I never really got into the subsequent Star Wars craze either. I think I saw the first prequel but that was it.

It was a good movie....for its time.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:19 #113569

Kenobi told Luke early in Star Wars that his father was the "best pilot in the galaxy". With that in mind, why wouldn't he take to his ship and deal with the problem directly? That's completely within the scope of the character. Also, I'm not sure where you're getting "sophisticated sensor equipment" since no mention of same was ever given in the film (or in any associated material, to my knowledge.) He acknowledges that "the Force is strong in this one" while he's trying to track down Luke in the trench. With that in mind, he's probably not too concerned about protecting his six, especially with two wingmen present who are supposed to do just that for the leader.

Furthermore, Vader is not analogous to the Pope in this situation. Tarkin had supreme command of the Death Star, so it would have been unusual to see Tarkin hop in a TIE fighter. Or, for that matter, the Emperor in the new Death Star in Return. I'm not sure why you're even including Biggs in the equation, since he has a total of about 30 seconds of screen time and a brief reference in the early part of the movie. He's essentially a plot device demonstrating Luke's desire to get off Tattoine and was never meant to be more than that.

Finally, the "writers" didn't have to come up with the incest issue. Lucas has stated before that the two of them were siblings from the very beginning and she was intended to fall for the "bad guy" from the outset.

So, I guess I'm saying that I'm not sure where the foundation is for your complaints. I mean, obviously, if that's your opinion, that's your opinion. But it seems to be based on a lot of assertions that either don't have a basis in the script or seem to be drawn from very little substance.

For me, it kinda died with the Ewoks. I was disturbed that we went from the dark and gripping Empire to the utterly sanitized Return (it was originally titled "Revenge of the Jedi" before Lucas decided that was too violent or some such thing.) But the death knell was definitely the prequels. The story was shallow; the script was awful; the action scenes seemed to be designed for marketing as games (admittedly, I have a copy of Queen's Gambit and love it...) It was just a bad film and made very capable actors (Portman, MacGregor, Neeson) look like complete idiots. The subsequent films were even worse in many respects.

Lucas says that's the kind of corny shit that makes him happy so, whatevs. But I was pretty dismayed to see a franchise that I had loved as a kid (I saw the first film a week after its release, when I was 7 years old, and then another 3 times after that) basically ignore its long-time audience in favor of... something.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:20 #113570

Well I'm sure all this shit has be nerd-analyzed to death elsewhere but let me say this. The original idea of the story was modified after the first movie.

It is clear that in the original Star Wars, Luke and Leia are NOT brother and sister. Han becomes her love interest in later movies because the good girl/bad boy dynamic was better than princess/peasant dynamic between Luke and Leia. Luke also becomes a paladin figure later and thus above sexuality. They don't become brother and sister until Return of the Jedi and that of course is where Lucas' ideas were getting worse.

It is clear that Vader is outside the normal power structure of the Empire's military in the first movie. He is not a junior emperor. He is more of a special agent sent to deal with problems outside the bounds of day to day oppression. He is clearly outranked by the Admiral in charge of the Death Star. A real world analogy would be Sepp Deitrich in WW2. An SS officer sent to "put out fires"...he was high ranking, he was feared and he commanded a tank when he needed to just like Vader piloting a Tie fighter when he needs to.

As to how the Millennium Falcon can sneak up. Vader was in a duel with Luke at the time. Focusing his piloting and force against Luke's in an attempt to target him. It is not surprising he paid little heed to the rest of the battle. Also remember they were in a trench. Sensors that can see through everything, detect everything and can analyze everything from any distance is pure Star Trek not Star Wars.

Biggs is really a side note. He is not the character to whom we relate. That is Han Solo. He's the everyday guy skeptical of causes and the force.

In the end, the first two movies are awesome. They are consistent and hold together. It is not until Lucas grabs back the reins in Return of the Jedi and surrounds himself with yes men that the series begins to fall apart.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:39 #113574

I love the Ewoks. If I run into another fat, slobbering fuck that claims that the Ewoks "ruined" Star Wars...not saying that's y'all, but I've seen a couple. Usually their the same kind of people that were all miffed that the prequels weren't Jedi Decapitation-athon 1999 and don't realize that these are family pictures intended for kids and adults. Star Wars was never full of 1990s-style post-teenage darkness and hard ass characters. It never should be.

The Ewoks are cool as hell. I love that they're primitive bear people that fight with rocks and sticks. I like that they're kid-oriented, I love that they make Return of the Jedi classifiable as a midget film. I like seeing their babies, I like Wicket, I like that C3PO (a golden man from the sky) tells them the stories that will one day become their religion. I like the "jub jub" song, all of it.

I like Jedi too. I think it's the most _fun_ out of all three OT films. It covers a lot of ground and maintains a light, swashbuckly tone. And come the fuck on y'all, the space battle at the end is the BEST EVER.

Where I noticed that SW sucks though, wasn't actually in Episode I. I gave that the benefit of a doubt. It was really in Episode II, when Anakin and Padme date. That was so, so, so, so, so awful. That was the first time where I just blindly hated something Star Wars. In retrospect, Jake Lloyd's "are you an angel" line might have done it too.

I'm going to watch Jedi tonight. Screw y'all.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:39 #113575

Vader hopped into a TIE fighter because the filmmakers needed a reason for him to be off the Death Star when it exploded.

Is it time for a Star Destroyer vs Enterprise derail?

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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:46 #113576

Star Wars has never sucked. All the movies have been entertaining. It only sucks for those where Star Wars is a lifestyle much like Trekies. A Geek dressed as a Stormtrooper likes to believe he is badass and this is hard to do marching next to an Ewok at a Con.

Watch the movie, enjoy and move on.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:55 #113579

I loved all three films as a kid and today they can still bring a nostalgic tear to my eye. But I recognize there are some huge problems now that I'm older.

But as a kid I felt betrayed when Boba Fett died for comic relief and to this day I can't forgive the original series that fatal flaw of crushing my 10 year old heart. Any subsequent criticisms I've come up with as an adult don't count because they were kids movies.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:58 #113580

Ewoks are awesome.

Star Wars prequels are a let down for sure and feature some really cringe worthy moments but still don't totally suck.

The universe as a whole, especially when looking at various support medias like video games and comics is glorious and wonderful and fuck all you nerd raging jerk offs who think you're too cool for campy space opera entertainment.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 21:58 #113581

I've never really been that big a fan of the series. Yes, when it first came out, I was mad about it (it's the only movie I remember my family ever going to more than once; four times, as I recall). But my interest slowly waned to mildly liking it by the end of Jedi.

When TPM came out, I wasn't even going to bother going, but a friend who was a SW fanatic dragged me to see it. I thought it was okay at best, and didn't bother seeing the other two in the theater. When I had the chance to see them at home, I decided I'd watch the prequel trilogy from the beginning all at once. I sat down with TPM, and I couldn't make it past ten minutes. So fucking boring. Never did watch the other two, and probably never will.

Gotta say, though, this universe has given us some damn good video games. Jedi Knight and its sequels are super badass.
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 22:07 #113582

I think I've said it here before, but I'm with Barnes. I loved the ewoks as a kid and Jedi was my favorite film of the OT. Hell, even discounting the whole Endor part of the finale, the battle around the second death star and the final confrontation between Luke, Vader and the emperor are bad ass. Two outa three a'int bad.

The prequels are what killed it. I kept going back thinking they'd get better, but pretty much everything about them was ass. Lucas's refusal to release an unaltered, or at least less altered (some of the changes aren't bad ie Cloud City), version of the OT isn't helping me care any more. I'm pretty much over Star Wars, which is sad but you have to grow up at some point, right?
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Re: When did you first notice that Star Wars sucks? 20 Jan 2012 22:12 #113583

I've decided to renounce everything but the empire strikes back. which still fucking rules. even if I'd change it a bit, so that when Vader offers Luke the assistant managers role, I'd be like, fuck yeah, that sounds pretty cool dad, lets kick some fuckin ass, can I get me one of those black suits and helmets as well?
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