Hobbit 3 Talk

While I understand most of the criticism's about The Hobbit movies, I don't really think it means much to say Tolkien would not have approved of them. If you've read anything about how he worked and how he considered adaptations and interpretations of his work, it's obvious that NO film interpretation would have pleased him.

i've enjoyed the hobbit and Lotr films alot more once i divorced them from their source material. They don't really deliver the same thing for me. As action family entertainment films i enjoy them.Even aside from the fantasy world they depict there are somethings i don't like. Mostly the dwarf elf romance. Its completely unnecessary and just in there because someone decided a big production film needs a romance. It feels completely contrived and pointless. Other than that I am pretty pumped for the final film. I quite like the vistas of middle earth and some of the casting decisions/performances have been good. Martin Freeman is way more interesting than Elijah Wood ever was.

San Il Defanso wrote: While I understand most of the criticism's about The Hobbit movies, I don't really think it means much to say Tolkien would not have approved of them. If you've read anything about how he worked and how he considered adaptations and interpretations of his work, it's obvious that NO film interpretation would have pleased him.

​My understanding is that Chris Tolkien shares that sentiment and won't allow any more movies based on his father's works.

For all my criticisms of Jackson, I'm still glad the movies were made. The LotR and Hobbit movies are much better than most fantasy movies (with a handful of exceptions) and brought the genre to a broader audience. I'm sure there are thousands of moviegoers who then picked up the books and the commercial success of Jackson's films likely prompted studios to greenlight more fantasy movies. It's hard to measure these effects, but I think Jackson deserves some credit.

Attrition wrote: ... and the commercial success of Jackson's films likely prompted studios to greenlight more fantasy movies.

I thought this would happen too, but it doesn't seem to have panned out. I was hoping to see lots of great fantasy literature adaptations once LOTR paved the way. Instead, we got those lifeless adaptations of a couple of Narnia books, that shitty "Golden Compass" movie (GREAT book, by the way), that Conan movie with Khal Drogo ... anything else I'm missing? Wasn't there an Earthsea movie on SyFy, maybe? I guess there's Harry Potter, but that feels like a completely separate phenomenon.

None of those other film adaptations really took off, and now it feels like the industry has given up on epic fantasy. It's all superheroes now.

Oh, and Game of Thrones, of course! That one seems to be doing pretty well! But again, even the incredible success of GoT hasn't sparked a huge influx of fantasy adaptations on TV. Why is that??

I think it was a positive for genre pictures in general... not just fantasy. But the effects of something like this are long haul effects and may not be obvious until a generation or two down the road. But I didn't mind the first Narnia movie.. however in that case the book is much better.

Fantasy is expensive to make and both LOTR and GoT had sizable communities to support them upon release. Also, GoT got a lot of exposure from it's titty shots and deaths.


eidt... and what about smaller films like Pan's Labyrinth or Let the Right One In? There's plenty of those since 2001.

Joebot wrote: Oh, and Game of Thrones, of course! That one seems to be doing pretty well! But again, even the incredible success of GoT hasn't sparked a huge influx of fantasy adaptations on TV. Why is that??

Because fantasy has been done to death? Seriously, there's been tons of them over the last 35 years, both real and animation. Some books have been done twice. Potter fits the bill, Frozen was a monster from this past year, I'm not sure what source materials are left that haven't gotten the treatment.

Westerns -- there's an underutilized setting. Not a lot of Civil War films or Victorian stuff (save for Sherlock Holmes) either . . . I'd like a good pirate movie. There hasn't been a decent brooding submarine movie in a couple of decades. There's a lot of traditional topics that get about zero attention each year. Fantasy just isn't one of them. It's getting all the attention it could ever want.

S.

I think rather than fantasy specifically, both LotR and Harry Potter films have inspired a shit-ton of YA adaptations. Many (most?) have also been fantasy/sci-fi, but I think that's just a side effect.

GoT is really the only adult fantasy thing going. But man, I would love to see someone try to adapt the Thomas Covenant series.

Sagrilarus wrote: Westerns -- there's an underutilized setting.

Maybe in the modern era, but holy crap there has got to be more Western movies than any other genre ever. That's one reason I don't see the superhero trend dying off anytime soon.

I actually don't think fantasy has been done to death... I think Tolkien version of fantasy has been done to death. It's odd to me that fantasy means elves and dragons... that's not good enough for me. Fantasy can be so much more. When I read David Lindsay's 1920 novel A Voyage to Arcturus I saw where fantasy could have gone if it wasn't for Tolkien... and it blew my mind. Sometimes I still see flashes of it and Pan's Labyrinth was an interesting take. Brazil is a top five fantasy film for me.

I certainly want more fantasy but I want it to be done more creatively. People need to throw out the Tolkien tropes which were already done to death when the Dragonlance series came out... now it's even worse. My favorite fantasy novel is The Third Policeman and I don't think many people would even see it as fantasy which is too bad.

Sagrilarus wrote:
Westerns -- there's an underutilized setting. Not a lot of Civil War films or Victorian stuff (save for Sherlock Holmes) either . . . I'd like a good pirate movie. There hasn't been a decent brooding submarine movie in a couple of decades. There's a lot of traditional topics that get about zero attention each year. Fantasy just isn't one of them. It's getting all the attention it could ever want.

S.

They should just kill the entire flock with a single stone then and make a movie about a pirated submarine of disgruntled Southerners stalking the western approaches.


That's gold, Jerry! Gold!

Some non-Tolkien fantasy stuff that could be great as movies:

Elric
Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser
the Amber series

and that's just after 60 seconds of thought.

Shellhead wrote: Some non-Tolkien fantasy stuff that could be great as movies:

Elric
Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser
the Amber series

and that's just after 60 seconds of thought.

Oh there's plenty in literature. I mentioned two of them in my post. But I am truly not interested in adaptations. If a book is good I'll read it. I want new IP's, I want risk and creativity.

I'm going to break LotR Film impact out into another thread here in a bit, but want to swing this back to The Hobbit.

So, we just finished up the first one...this film is even better than I thought when I last saw it a year ago. I've got a lot of very positive things to say about it, and likely stuff we've said before.

I find it amazing that we've got this epic trilogy starring 13 old, fat guys, and a geriatric in robes. It's really quite amazing when you think about it. Thank goodness for the books, because if this was an original screenplay, no way would it get green lit.

I find Thorin far more compelling than Aragorn. Yeah, he's a jackass, but IMO his tale is more interesting as is his character's motivation -which'll end up consuming him.

I'm an old sap and can tear up watching films quite often. There are a few parts in this flick that sorta get me. The cheesy bit where Gandalf looks at the camera talking about how the small, peaceful things can hold back the darkness, when Bilbo spares Gollum, and when Bilbo gives that speech about having a home but willing to help the dwarves find theirs. Great stuff. Again, I'm a sap though.

Still dig the Howard Shore score. The hobbit and ring themes get me every time.

I really like the goblin king, but then I also liked Boss Nass in TPM. These sort of off-beat characters are fun. I dug the Goblin King singing, and "That'll do it" was great.

Serkis is still killing it as Gollum. But there he's pretty much been apes and other cgi creatures since LotR, so I suppose he's in practice.

The inclusion of any character from LotR (Elrond, Galadriel, Sauromon, etc) feel natural and organic in this film and not like fan service. Way different than what goes on in the Star Wars franchise (walk-ons by Chewbacca, Boba Fett, and co for no reason).

Are there a few bits that are over the top...yeah. The stone giants for sure. It was a throw away line in the book and not needed, but still it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the film as a whole. It's a fantasy...

I find it interesting that Jackson closed out each LotR trilogy film with female artists, and The Hobbit with males. I've really enjoyed all the songs from the first five. I haven't heard 'The Last Goodbye' from Billy Boyd as I don't want to spoil it for myself. I want to hear it for the first time as it closes out the franchise in the theaters...where'll I'll likely bawl.

Anyway, my son really enjoyed the film as well and we can't wait for Desolation of Smaug next week.

The Hobbit movies are awesome.

I have noticed that they hold up really well to repeat viewings. I can't imagine re-watching GoT though.. for example. There are some beautiful scenes in the Hobbit and what I really like is that even with the drama and melancholy turned up to max they still find room for some humour here and there.

A lot of genre pics these days could learn from that. Not wink wink isn't this cheesy humour.. actual real humour where the characters are actually funny for each other. That's how life is.

It's too bad I don't go to the theatre anymore because I am really excited for this.

I enjoyed this review. Maybe because it validated my thoughts on the films, but mainly because, I didn't realize these flicks were making _more_ than LotR.

www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2014/12/...-is-a-mythic-marvel/