Alien, Aliens, Alien3, Alien Resurrection, Etc

Oh boy Jeff...you have got to see Leon, the "Version Integrale" of The Professional. It's about 20 minutes worth of material, and it's ALL GOOD. Egg summed up most of it there, most significant is a scene where Leon flatly shuts down any notion of any kind of relationship with Matilda. Which shifts the tone MUCH more to a student/teacher kind of crush thing rather than a sort of creepy man/girl thing. I have no idea why this was cut for the US release, but if I recall correctly it's during the scene when she has a drink. So I guess the editors felt that a drinking child was more offensive than a suggestion of an underage relationship. Weird. There is also more training, more hands-on work with Matilda learning to be a killer. Which likely didn't set well with the American studio.

Definitely more character dimension and development...probably one of the better "extended version"/"director's cut" things ever done.

Alien and Aliens are in my top 5 favorite movies of all time. Alien 3 fascinates me for the history behind it. There's a really interesting look at its history on one of the DVD/Blu-Ray releases that, while it doesn't make it any better, really does a great job at putting it into perspective.

Never seen Ressurection, have no intentions on doing so.

Prometheus is one of those rare things (along with anything Zack Snyder directs and Kevin Wilson's solo designs) that turns me into a total asshole, but I'm not backing down off how I feel about it....It is so obviously terrible and anyone who gets to defend it clearly has no clue what they're talking about and is, quite possibly, a complete fucking moron. Not accusing anyone here of being a complete fucking moron, but I do file away this enormous flaw in your taste much like how Batman keeps tabs on all of his closest friends' weaknesses just in case he has to take them down at some point.

Here's that Behind the Scenes of Alien 3.

" The reaction to Prometheus continues to baffle me...there was nothing "terrible" about that movie, and it was in some sequences really quite good. I stand by what I said before- that movie, released before the internet, would have been hailed as a classic. Post-internet, it's torn to shreds by people who for whatever reason suddenly switch on this HYPER critical "everything in this science fiction movie makes no sense and would never happen in reality" mode. "

For me, at least, the problem I have with Prometheus is that it spends so much time introducing the audience to what looks like a smart, thematically rich, lived-in science fiction world, it really teases the idea that it is going to be another Blade Runner or Alien. And then it completely switches gears at the mid point to become a very entertaining but very dumb and very trope-heavy horror movie.

And honestly, I'd be really happy with either version if they made a complete movie.

A full story that delivers on the complicated relationship between creators and their creations (not just the Engineers and humanity but also the relationship between Weyland, the android and Charlize Theron) and the related existential and personal associated horror that comes from those ideas when they are fully explored, would have been great.

I'd also really enjoy a full version of Abbot and Costello Meet the Space Mummy that the second half offers, if everything that preceded hadn't spent so much time setting up a much richer story.

RoboCop is weird as a franchise because there is so much content in that no one ever seems to talk about. I never see people talking about how much of a missed opportunity the sequels, multiple TV series, video games and remakes all were. It seems like fans are pretty happy with the first one and are pretty pleased to ignore everything else.

Which is a little strange to me, because of all of the classic genre movies from its period RoboCop seems like the one that would benefit the most from being updated to the 2010s. Half the things that were totally absurd 20 years ago barely feel like satire now.

BTW, I didn't see any of these movies until I was in my early 20s and bought the 3-pack at Target on a whim. Didn't realize that the version of Aliens that I had was the Director's Cut until I replaced it on Blu-Ray and found some of my favorite character beats missing. So yeah, totally worth watching that version.

John Myers wrote: RoboCop is weird as a franchise because there is so much content in that no one ever seems to talk about. I never see people talking about how much of a missed opportunity the sequels, multiple TV series, video games and remakes all were. It seems like fans are pretty happy with the first one and are pretty pleased to ignore everything else.

That's because what keeps me watching Robocop over and over is Paul Verhoeven's sensibility and his takes on Robocop and Old Detroit. When I get done watching Robocop it puts me in the mood to watch Total Recall or Starship Troopers, not Robocop 2.

I've seen Prometheus twice and it doesn't really hold up to multiple viewings. Given the amount of hate it got I went into it with zero expectations. I walked away thinking, it was alright. I watched it again with my brother a few months later and I didn't really like it at all.

Again, like Alien 3 its not the biggest piece of shit I've ever seen. But in terms of trying to be this AAA blockbuster Sci Fi film...it misses the mark. The problem is that at times it hits you with some good stuff. It makes you wish it had focused on some of the better parts/more interesting characters and worried less about playing it "safe". That is my biggest complaint about the film is that it all feels very safe. It's like Ridley Scott was afraid to come in and do some crazy shit that might be an Alien prequel, but it might not be. I think he just didn't know what the fuck to do and the film suffered big time. This isn't some George Lucas Phantom Menace level failure. It's something a little less spectacular than that. There is DNA within Prometheus that could be stripped out and developed into something riveting. As is, it's just an average sci fi flick that has the unfortunate association of being the not Alien prequel....Alien prequel. Also Jesus may or may not have been an alien that we killed. The end.

I definitely agree the appeal of RoboCop comes from Verhoven and Neumier's respective voices. But I think the same could be said about Scott/Cameron on the Alien movies and Lucas on Star Wars.

I suspect part of it stems from the fact that RoboCop never teases a bigger world.

At the end of Aliens, the Xenomorphs are still out there and so is the Company and Star Wars always hinted that there was more going on than what was on the screen. RoboCop is pretty straight forward. Cop becomes robot, battles corruption recovers a bit of his humanity (that's a huge over simplification, I know). It doesn't really leave you wanting more.

Although. if anything RoboCop 2 should have been a huge warning about how poorly Frank Miller's skill set would translate from comics to film.

I'm not a huge fan of Frank Miller, but the first Sin City movie was good.

I have to confess to liking Alien 3 best. Only saw it once though, and that was years ago. I think I'm the only guy feeling that way.

Alien was interesting, but I read the book first. That killed it for me. Aliens had "funny" lines, but it's a truly empty movie. "A gripping thrill ride, non stop action hold onto your seat and that's not all!" Not my thing. I like my science fiction broody.

Cameron produces remarkably vacuous films. Hard to believe he was married to the director of hurt locker. There must have been strange dinner conversations in that relationship.

The guy that wrote Alien 3 played Space Hulk. I betcha.

S.

OK, I've watched the Assembly Cut of Alien 3 a few times and can now issue forth on it.

It makes a HUGE difference. I think it's about 25 minutes of extra footage and quite a lot of ALTERNATE footage that not only goes further into the characters and the religious aspect...it also completely changes events in the story. The result is a film that feels slower, but more robust all around. The themes are expanded and better developed and it just feels more complete. Charles Dutton's Brother Dillon benefits greatly from the new footage because it expands his role and presence substantially.

What it doesn't do is go back on the "everybody died" transition to the sequel that more or less no one liked (but it becomes more of an impetus for Ripley's grief and hopelessness) and it doesn't undo the mistake of offing Clemens too early. It remains unusually nihilistic and it still has this uncomfortable cross between total B-movie gore and shock and more serious concepts. It still bears the marks of a troubled production and uncertain direction.

And the dog is completely gone.

It is definitely a better film "restored" this way and I'd actually go so far as to declare it "pretty good" but still third best...and it's up out of the "fucking terrible" pit that now just includes Alien Resurrection and the AVP films.

Well worth seeing...I think it's only on the 2003 Quadrilogy set and the more recent 2010 set (the one I got). If you never liked it, give it a chance...if you always liked it, I think you'll like it even more.

Sagrilarus wrote: I have to confess to liking Alien 3 best.

Alien was interesting, but I read the book first. That killed it for me. Aliens had "funny" lines, but it's a truly empty movie.

S.

Hey Sag, don't take this the wrong way or anything but you sound like a fucking retard.


I'm super glad you're back at the Fort by the way! We missed ya!

I don't remember Alien 3 very well, but it certainly didn't appeal to my 16 year old brain back when it came out. Aliens on the other hand I've seen dozens of times. But if Barnes is right and Alien 3 is improved by the extended edition let me promise you that Aliens is not... the extended version totally sucks and includes extra scenes that kill lots of momentum, drama, mystery and kind of ruin the whole thing.

Sag is right ultimately, basically Aliens is an empty movie but it succeeded at it's goal beautifully and that counts for a great deal. The genre it belongs to is pretty much an empty genre to begin with but hey... it's a movie and in all honesty movies are awesome at being fun but empty and pointless. It's one of their best features. That's why the big budget art movie is dying. I like lots of types of movies but the brainless popcorn flick is a staple of the medium. Any anti-corporation theme you read into Aliens is basically just the writers trying to justify all the bullets and jokes.

Aliens is a well-crafted film. It's empty, but exceptionally well crafted. I'd gladly have Cameron's company put a new paint job on my car. He ain't touchin' my transmission.

I need to see Aliens 3 again. It's been years and I had things going on at the time so I didn't focus.

S.

But the director's cut has those robot sentries! I LOVE those things. "B gun's down."

I despise empty movies but I always felt like Aliens was pretty fun, without feeling empty. It's just full of stuff. And that's a gutsy movie to make back in the 80s after something as respected and ground-breaking as Alien. Nowadays sequels are not a big deal at all, they're expected.

Still, it is fun to think about what James and Kathryn would talk about over dinner. "honey, honey, look at this... I"m the king of the meatloaf!!"