Rogue One (with SPOILERS)

I enjoyed it quite a bit. I don't know that I'll be taking my kids to see it. It's not a kid friendly movie.

It's interesting to read that people were bothered by the CGI of Tarkin and Leia. In the interest of continuity, I liked Tarkin's presence and I feel that it needed to be there as he makes his play to take control of the Death Star project. I'm not sure that a hologram version would have had the same impact or if it would have made sense.

I don't know that we needed to see Leia say her line about Hope. Seeing the robes from the back would have been enough.

3D viewing isn't necessary.

Star Wars Battlefront Vader was awesome. I didn't try to connect him to Anakin. I was able to enjoy him for what he was.

Saw Gerrera, better than I expected but I was disappointed that he didn't get more play. If he had escaped, the strategy scene with the Rebellion leaders would have been EPIC.

I'm not a fan of the actor who played Cassian. He just doesn't have enough (much?) presence as an actor. He's not much bigger than Erso.

It's a shame that in this day that any close relationship between two guys is picked out as being gay. Two guys can't be loyal to each other without homo-erotic undertones. Fewer and fewer people have close male friends these days?

I went to see it with my dad and my 7-year-old and we all pretty much loved it. My dad didn't know about CGI Tarkin and hadn't noticed at all.

One of the best things in the movie is the speech Andor gives as reason for joining Jyn. Basically the idea is "we've gone this far, so giving up know would mean it would all have been for nothing." And that is a fine argument, but also one you could make just before flying a plane into WTC, and I love that idea.

I do think some things were strange though.

1. Planet hopping. I know that it shows us the Empire being big and all, but since all planets only have one location, it makes it feel kinda small in the end.

2. Jyn's arch happens a bit fast. Too fast, I think.

3. Why would Tarkin choose to shoot up the archives? Why not use the firepower against the rebel fleet and destroy them before they escape. Seems weird.

4. If the Rebel Corvette escapes from a major battle with Leia in it, it's pretty obvious it's not on a "diplomatic mission to Alderaan."

But it's nitpicking. I loved it. I loved K2 who had a bit more edge than previous droids, and I loved the ending with Jyn and Andor on the beach. But obviously the goose bumbs moment is when all the squadron leaders start signing in - that is just such an iconic Star Wars thing.

The Kylo Ren situation is an embarrassment. The biggest cock-up in the universe happens (Anakin turning to Vader) and Han/Leia/Luke/Republic (or whatever the rebellion is now in TFA) don't prevent it happening again so soon with his grandson? Nuts.

Not one teacher was like, "Hey, Han, Kylo's been touching on some dark concepts in class lately....maybe a little counseling?" or "Hey, Leia, Kylo's force choking students again....think you're brother can step in on this one?" Hell, worse case they isolate and contain the kid.

_Anything_ to prevent him from leading a band of Ring Wraiths and working for the DeathierStar leading up a new darkside. They have all the resources in the universe to prevent this from happening...and they don't?

But, this is The Force Awakens...the SW movie with no grasp on its characters at all. Han doesn't like domestic life so he goes back to gambling, smuggling, and benders with Chewie. 40-50 years of runnin' and gunnin' together and I'm supposed to believe Han has not _once_ fired Chewie's bowcaster? Leia doesn't feel the need to comfort Chewie after witnessing the death of his best friend? Luke, maybe one of the most pure jedi, sees his side win out over the Empire...then goes into hiding? While his nephew turns evil? Obi-Wan hiding, I get. He had an army hunting him...still he was able to keep an eye on Luke...

All the beloved OT characters wind up as little b!tches in TFA. The Force Awakens is almost the worst Star Wars movie in the franchise, IMO, because of how it severely mishandles the characters (and droid, please...this is without going into the issues of the new characters). If it wasn't for Attack of the Clones being an unwatchable dumpster fire, TFA would be my least favorite SW flick.

Regarding the Force Monk and disappearing, IIRC, it was Qui-Gonn Jinn who discovered the ghost-trick in death and he passed it on to the jedi council...I think at the time (trying to remember the prequels here) Yoda and Obi-Wan would have been able to learn it. Maybe Mace Windu, but Force Monk I don't think ever went up through any formal training so I doubt he has access to the trick. I don't think it's something the force does, but the way force users manipulate it. Maybe, disappearing is a step that makes it easier to reappear in that ghost like form later? So, only Yoda and Obi-Wan disappear knowing how to do this? Aren't they the only ones we see fade out? I assume, Qui-Gonn, Obi-Wan, or Yoda taught Anakin how to reappear ghost like after he died.

Jyn...I thought there was some line about 'I rebel' or something in the trailers. Did I miss that in the movie? she didn't seem as anti-authority/rogue as I was expecting. Also, I guess I was under the impression there was going to be some furry alien member of the team. Maybe I saw a trailer with that big white, wampa-thing in the post-market ambush scene or it was that little 'Critters' gunman? I don't know, but feels like I saw some stuff in an earlier trailer that wasn't in the film.

I liked Saw a lot. Whittaker did a great job playing up the quirks of a fried rebellion extremist. He went out like a chump though. It was like he just gave in. He seemed like the type of guy that would go out blazing.

When we cut to Mordor, home of Vader's castle, and Vader is talking with that middle manager villain...did Vader seem small to you guys? It's like his shoulders weren't very wide. I dunno...he didn't seem that imposing. I did notice the red tinted lenses though...nice touch. I didn't like seeing Vader walk _around_ mid management...seems they would get out of _his_ way. Vader's scene at the end was amazing though...and I guess we can now read Leia's 'diplomatic mission to Alderaan' as her being flip.

vegasrobb wrote: It's a shame that in this day that any close relationship between two guys is picked out as being gay. Two guys can't be loyal to each other without homo-erotic undertones. Fewer and fewer people have close male friends these days?

Yeah, I could care less if they were gay or not, but it's like Sam and Frodo. I have no problem with two dudes looking out for one another. Hell, I'd hold any of my friends if they were dying in a battlefield. Seems like the decent, human, thing to do. Doesn't mean I want to bone my buddies though. Like I said, I don't have a problem if they are, but just because a couple of fellas got each other's back doesn't mean they're star-crossed lovers.

Obligatory new rankings:
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Caravan of Courage
The Battle for Endor
The Force Awakens
Attack of the Clones

I thought it was fine - not great, but fine. I gave it a B. I saw it with a big group - about 10 of us - and I definitely liked it the least. Everyone else really enjoyed it.

I dunno - I think they lost me at 'quipping Vader'.

I just got increasing incredulous. Weird giant tower of data tapes? Sure, why not. Control panel at the end of very dangerous peninsula bridge? Of course. Having to hit a series of inconveniently located switches to complete the mission? Makes perfect sense. Push a Star Destroyer into the shield gate? A great plan!

I liked K2 - but I really wanted them to go the full HK-47 (from Knights of the Old Republic). He remains my favorite droid of all time, and deserves his own movie.

I thought "Don't choke on your aspirations" was a _great_ Vader line! I might go so far to say that this flick is the most badass representation of Vader. I mean, in the OT he stood around more imposing, fought an old man and his kid. Here...we see him cut loose. The fear of those blockade guys scrambling added to the terror. Well done scene.

Ultimately, these sort of 'fill in the gap' stories don't really need to be told. I mean, the Clone Wars were so much cooler in my imagination than what was filmed. I don't need to see Anakin turn into Vader, the Death Star plans stolen, Snake flying the Gulffire over Leningrad, etc. They don't add much to what we already know so seem to potentially be able to do more harm than good.

Still, if we're going to do these films, I want to see a stand alone Vader and Obi-Wan film from this era. Between III and IV. I'm not sure you could do Vader on his own, so maybe have a story with him running in tandem with Obi-Wan? Ewan Mcgragor was one of the highlights of the prequels. Maybe reward him with a decently made SW Obi-Wan flick?

EDIT: these inefficient structures are part of star wars lore. I mean, there's _got_ to be bottomless shafts, right?

mutagen wrote: Well, I'll preface this by saying I thought it was the most competent Star Wars movie ever made, and probably the only one I will ever re-watch, except perhaps the very first one. But it wasn't really a Star Wars movie was it. It was a dystopian nightmare, where everything good goes to die. My daughters didn't like it, and what was there for them to like? Any character they could possibly connect with was destroyed. Frankly, I felt like kind of a heel leaving the theater. It is like my grabby man-boy generation took a wonderful children's toy and twisted it into something scary and foul. Then they gave the toy back to me and said, "you like that better now don't you". And to my astonishment, I did. This leaves me wondering what is it exactly that I have become, and more to the point, couldn't we have just left the damn toy to the children?

In my long series of Star Wars rants this morning, I don't want the above to get overlooked. I get that nightmare feeling a lot.

Our generation taking toys or comics or whatnot and darkening them up seems to be a problem. I don't recall my parent's generation dragging their toys and hobbies into my youth, but sure enough my generation can't seem to let go. A store toy shelf today doesn't look much different than one from 1986. transformers, tmnt, star wars, wrestling, sometimes GI Joe, etc. So, we're feeding our kids the same crap we played with, but on top of that we have a tendency to want darker, grittier versions as well. Why not leave some universes for the kids, and create...*gasp* new ones that are more adult facing?

Superhero movies are big and GotG is a _great_ movie, but it doesn't need dick/penis jokes (and I'm not looking forward to Kurt Russell's Ego penis joke...). Deadpool...we have deadpool figures on the market for kids...is this the movie we need to make? Again, can't we just make, I dunno...some other non-comic/toy based 'hero' and give him an R rated movie? Do all our AAA video games need to be T or M rated? What happened to the joy and creativity of a Dig Dug, Frogger, Burger Time, or Centipede? Thank goodness for Nintendo...

I did a little research into the film first, so opted not to take my 6 year old daughter...she was cool with it. My 9 year old son enjoyed it, but I forewarned him that all the heroes died and if he still wanted to go. I didn't feel R1 was that much darker than Empire. Most of the deaths were sorta off camera, but yeah no hero getting out alive could be dark for a kid.

Mr. White wrote:

mutagen wrote: Well, I'll preface this by saying I thought it was the most competent Star Wars movie ever made, and probably the only one I will ever re-watch, except perhaps the very first one. But it wasn't really a Star Wars movie was it. It was a dystopian nightmare, where everything good goes to die. My daughters didn't like it, and what was there for them to like? Any character they could possibly connect with was destroyed. Frankly, I felt like kind of a heel leaving the theater. It is like my grabby man-boy generation took a wonderful children's toy and twisted it into something scary and foul. Then they gave the toy back to me and said, "you like that better now don't you". And to my astonishment, I did. This leaves me wondering what is it exactly that I have become, and more to the point, couldn't we have just left the damn toy to the children?

In my long series of Star Wars rants this morning, I don't want the above to get overlooked. I get that nightmare feeling a lot.

Our generation taking toys or comics or whatnot and darkening them up seems to be a problem. I don't recall my parent's generation dragging their toys and hobbies into my youth, but sure enough my generation can't seem to let go. A store toy shelf today doesn't look much different than one from 1986. transformers, tmnt, star wars, wrestling, sometimes GI Joe, etc. So, we're feeding our kids the same crap we played with, but on top of that we have a tendency to want darker, grittier versions as well. Why not leave some universes for the kids, and create...*gasp* new ones that are more adult facing?
.

I could rant about this for a long time, but I think it is related to this whole notion of "extended adolescence". Used to be you were considered an adult when you were 18 and you started doing adult things and taking on adult responsibilities.

Like everything else, this is colored by my own personal bias. However, I think that there is probably some good and bad to extended adolescence -- for instance, it might be better that people are getting married and having kids later in life (although, now it might be getting to be too late on average). One of the bad things though is the supplanting of forging ahead and creating something of meaning by dwelling in the past and, as you said, hijacking our children's space for creativity.

Space Ghost wrote: One of the bad things though is the supplanting of forging ahead and creating something of meaning by dwelling in the past and, as you said, hijacking our children's space for creativity.

Maybe related, but I read a recent critique of the new SW films that resonated (again, I liked R1).

The first time we were exposed to Star Wars (the OT), it was all new and we welcomed the excitement and discovery of the tale. (forging ahead)

Now, we aren't satisfied with a SW film unless it connects or parallels with what we liked before. (dwelling on the past)

Lucas was sort of correct in his praise/critique for TFA:

“I think the fans are going to love it,” he said. “It’s very much the kind of movie they’ve been looking for.”

(of course he got a lot of grief for this comment from fans...)

Its hilarious that people on THIS website are ranting about extended adolescence. F:AT is pretty much based on it.

Also, who says they can't make different movies for kids? Why do they have to get Star Wars too? Lucas was an extended adolescent when he made Star Wars. Its when he had kids later that he made the changes to it and then the kiddie prequels. A New Hope had an entire planet get obliterated, implied torture of Leia, and Obi Wan getting killed so its not like everyone made it safely through that movie either. Star Wars isn't suddenly getting darker or dwelling on the past. Its already from the past. If you don't like it then stop watching them and find some more grown up shit to do or whatever.

Good points, Mad Dog.

None of this discussion has anything to do with the fact that Chirrut shot down a TIE fighter WITH A BOW. Please correct the course here, folks.

Michael Barnes wrote: None of this discussion has anything to do with the fact that Chirrut shot down a TIE fighter WITH A BOW. Please correct the course here, folks.

He was one with the force and the force was with him.

Should force be captalized like Force?

It was an energy bow and he rolled exploding dice. It's not like there are shields on a first series TIE.

Doesn't matter. I could still feel my adolescence extending.

I guess I don't mind if they make Star Wars a bit "grittier", and Rogue One was certainly that. My beef with the film was that they switched genres. Rogue One was about a bunch of soldiers who died so some squabbling bureaucrats could successfully prosecuting their dodgy rebellion. It was a war film, rather than the adventure film I expect from Star Wars. Now I happen to like war films, and I liked Rogue One, and if you all like your war films with ray guns and spaceships instead of machine guns and PT boats, I guess that is all right, I think maybe I do as well. But for fucks sake, I might as well have taken my girls to see Hacksaw Ridge, it would have raised a few eyebrows, but it would have been the same movie, just even more grit. And they would have liked it just as much, which is to say, not at all. So yeah, I feel a little betrayed by the property. I imagine if some of you folks went into the film cold, and it turned out to be a romantic comedy, you would be a little hacked off as well.

And do we really need to dress up our war films in the trappings of childhood? Some unholy cross between Saving Private Ryan and Toy Story. It feels a little bit like the bubble gum cigarettes we used to buy as children. What's the upsell, war forever? This is ultimately why I feel we should abandon the toys to the children. We may like them a little more hard-core, but the children are still going to play with them. Sorry to be that guy, but I'm still smarting from taking my children to a war movie.