SOC in Wired

TheDukester wrote:

"If I could wave a magic wand and replace all the copies of Monopoly out there with Settlers, I truly think the world would be a better place."

typical euro gaming thinking too. I HAS MAGIC WAND! I WILL MAKE EURO GAMING POPULAR, NOT CURE WORLD HUNGER!

NOTE TO EURO DWEEBS: NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY YOUR SHITTY GAMES

NOTE TO EURO DWEEBS: NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY YOUR SHITTY GAMES

So true. They can't seem to get this through their thick "code filled" skulls!!!

Derk and Aldie are NOT the best representatives of the boardgame world.

Derk for the longest time only played and loved one game "Tigris and Euphrates" and proclaimed all else shit.

Derk's contribution to his site is not much at all.

Just because they built the arena doesn't mean they can compete as gladiators in the hobby.

You see this on other hobby websites as well. A coder who has knowledge on how to build and run a website doesn't always make the best representative of the hobby as a whole.

That's true even here, look at Skeletor! HA!

What's really interesting though is that this article holds up Settlers of Catan as the model for Eurogames and it doesn't even represent what Eurogames have morphed into. About the only thing it shares in common with modern Euros is the fact that players are eliminated. There's interaction in the forms of trading and establishing "alliances". There's revenge factors in where you stick the thief. There's randomness in both the setup of the island and the allocation of resources.

TheDukester wrote:

It makes me smile just to picture their nerd rage.

Me too...we're not even limited to just picturing it. We've got great examples of it right here!

Octavian wrote:

Me too...we're not even limited to just picturing it. We've got great examples of it right here!

Yawn. Slumming again, I see. Slow day over in Ban-Land?

I love Settlers of Catan--I think it is a great, great game. AND I like Monopoly (without Free parking), too.

(The line about Monopoly being a negative experience because you grind your opponents into dust...I've been driven into dust in Settlers too. You just don't know it the first few times that you play)

TheDukester wrote:

Octavian wrote:

Me too...we're not even limited to just picturing it. We've got great examples of it right here!

Yawn. Slumming again, I see. Slow day over in Ban-Land?

What is your obsession with my forum browsing behaviors? Are you stalking me? Listen...I'm flattered, maybe even a little bit curious. But I'm married and it would never work between us. It would be best for both of us if we go on pretending this never happened. Sure, we'll have those long awkward pauses, and the meaningful gazes shared across the room during parties, and maybe even wondering for the rest of our lives about what could have been...but we're just going to have to live with that.

-MMM

Octavian wrote:

What is your obsession with my forum browsing behaviors? Are you stalking me?

Oh, please. Take yourself a little more seriously next time. And as far as the "stalking" goes, check how often it is that you quote me here ... for instance, in this very thread a page ago. Gee, look at that.

Since you don't get it, here it is in small words: I think your "See, I'm just a regular guy!" routine over here is complete bullshit, and I'm not surprised you're beginning to get called on it. You want to have it both ways — Lord High Ban-Hammer over there; regular guy over here — and it's not working. Too fucking bad for you, I guess.

Slumming can be a lot of fun, from what I hear ... right up until the point where the peasants start to catch on.

Well, I'll agree that someone here is taking things a little too seriously.

In all seriousness, I don't consider my being here to be slumming - I'll refrain from speculating out-loud about what it means that you do.

On the topic of Monopoly, the game starts off hot, has an interesting middle, and the endgame is completely mindless. The choice between buying or starting an auction is an interesting one, and the auctions themselves are high-stakes. Once all the properties are accounted for the game shifts into a fairly light risk management game with flare ups of some great negotiation elements. Once that has settled down the game is little more than Candyland. Decisions are few, and you're just watching the game play itself out.

Where Settlers easily outshines Monopoly is in the length of that mindless endgame. The nature of negotiating trades in Settlers makes them meaningful for almost the entire game. You really only have about two goes around the table left by the time the winner or subset of winners is a foregone conclusion. Contrast that with Monopoly, where the cycle of roll-and-pay turns with little else to do can easily last for half an hour or more.

This isn't even going into the fact that Monopoly is also a huge, and thus easy, target. Just like Settlers is for the anti-euro crowd.

Settlers is one of the best Euro games out there. The problem is, virtually nobody making Euro games these days realises it.

Octavian wrote:

On the topic of Monopoly, the game starts off hot, has an interesting middle, and the endgame is completely mindless. The choice between buying or starting an auction is an interesting one, and the auctions themselves are high-stakes. Once all the properties are accounted for the game shifts into a fairly light risk management game with flare ups of some great negotiation elements. Once that has settled down the game is little more than Candyland. Decisions are few, and you're just watching the game play itself out.

Woa Octavian!

The little used "auction" is only just one thing people often ignore or are unaware of. Here's another: Don't forget about the rule (strategy) that no additional houses or hotels may be added, if all 32 houses are already in play. In other words, it is a bonafide end-game strategy to buy up all of the houses to prevent others from improving their own properties... which is yet another rule, frequently unknown or ignored, that brings yet another element of strategy to this game.

Also when people add money to Free Parking as another house rule, this prolongs the game against it's own expressed object.

Most people who don't like Monopoly are more than likely playing by some element of "house rules", passed down through generations to keep everyone alive and playing, and really don't see Monopoly for the interactive and creative design that it is.

There is plenty to negotiate in Monopoly...ALL game long. But you have to play by the official rules to get a sense of all of that.

Ryan B.

P.S. I'm running this comment concurrent with this forum thread on BGG:

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3266969#3266969

So please give me some help defending this game!

On the topic of Monopoly, the game starts off hot, has an interesting middle, and the endgame is completely mindless. The choice between buying or starting an auction is an interesting one, and the auctions themselves are high-stakes. Once all the properties are accounted for the game shifts into a fairly light risk management game with flare ups of some great negotiation elements. Once that has settled down the game is little more than Candyland. Decisions are few, and you're just watching the game play itself out.

Agreed, but what will we be saying about SoC in 2069? Will it have aged as well as Monopoly?

Ryan B. wrote:

P.S. I'm running this comment concurrent with this forum thread on BGG:

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3266969#3266969

So please give me some help defending this game!

I see Aldie is willing to jump in with this comment:

"Thanks for posting! BTW - if you think Monopoly is a good game, I have a bridge to sell ya!"

Hmmm, you ALL must be banned over there. (LOL) Aldie takes the gloves off and no reaction from this group??? (LOL)

Where's the Charlton Heston in ya? . : )

Ryan B. wrote:

Ryan B. wrote:

P.S. I'm running this comment concurrent with this forum thread on BGG:

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3266969#3266969

So please give me some help defending this game!

I see Aldie is willing to jump in with this comment:

"Thanks for posting! BTW - if you think Monopoly is a good game, I have a bridge to sell ya!"

Hmmm, you ALL must be banned over there. Aldie takes the gloves off and no reaction from this group? (LOL)

I don't read TOS as much as I once did, but sadly I share the sentiment. As a kid I hated Monopoly so badly, I really and truly did think that I was weird and must hate boardgames. This was long, long before the internet "groupthink".

Ken B. wrote:

I don't read TOS as much as I once did, but sadly I share the sentiment. As a kid I hated Monopoly so badly, I really and truly did think that I was weird and must hate boardgames. This was long, long before the internet "groupthink".

Dude, it's cool. I'm not looking for actual "victory" over there. I just think its a fun... but worthwhile... conversation. We all have different tastes in boardgames.

And I understand that not everyone would...or should... like Monopoly. But it's OK to like it too. I just dislike it when the "majority" over there at BGG tries to impose its will on all.

Groupthink, I believe you called it?