SOC in Wired

Hmmm, you ALL must be banned over there. Aldie takes the gloves off and no reaction from this group? (LOL)

Where's the Charlton Hestion in ya? . : )

I wouldn't exactly call that taking the gloves off. More like a pinch and a giggle from Scott Nicholson! HA!

Ryan B. wrote:

Don't forget about the rule (strategy) that no additional houses or hotels may be added, if all 32 houses are already in play.

Good point.

Also when people add money to Free Parking as another house rule, this prolongs the game against it's own expressed object.

Good point

There is plenty to negotiate in Monopoly...ALL game long. But you have to play by the official rules to get a sense of all of that.

Good point.

And I'll add that Monopoly even has official "quick start" rules that most people are unaware of (deal two properties, which must be purchased, before the first roll). This has been my preferred method of play for years.

I'd be willing to wager that a huge majority of the people who have played have not actually read the rules to the game (it's taught to them, in other words). Along those lines, I'd bet every single thing I own and all my future earnings that more than 99 percent of all people who have ever played Monopoly couldn't possibly care less about things like "endgame" and "mechanics" and "optimal" and "luck-based" and all of the other manufactured nonsense conjured up by an internet hive mind at a glorified database.

They play it; they have a bit of fun. They move on with their lives. I'd bet most of these people even go outside sometimes and interact socially with other people.

The big bullshit line over there was that the game is 95% chance, 5% skill. There's a cluster of folks that duke it out for national and world titles year after year. They must really have mastered that 5% part, I guess. Or they get luckier than everyone else at the table every time they sit down to thump people at MONOPOLY.

I've played Monopoly so many times I'm not really for or against it at this point. Its simply there and people either want to play it or they don't. Although if playing I admit I'd prefer one of the themed editions just for a little change.

My first adult board game group started with only three games. Monopoly, Clue, and RoboRally. One player didn't like RR, I kept winning at Monopoly, and we were all sick of Clue so I did a Google search for something like "good board game" to see what else was out there. Came across several sites recommending Settlers so bought that and later came across BGG (back when it was new).

All true, Ryan - and the use of house rules and/or ignorance of actual rules is a big contributing factor towards the perception the game runs too long or involves too much luck. However it does not change anything about my description of the course of the game. It lingers much too long in the closing roll-and-pay phase.

I don't think most peoples' contention is with the perception that Monopoly sucks, Octavian, it's the snooty attitude it tends to provoke in hobby gamers, ATers and eurofans alike. Derk just seems to be displaying a ridiculous cartoon caricature of that snobbery.

Here he is in the article:

"Monopoly has you grinding your opponents into dust. It's a very negative experience. It's all about cackling when your opponent lands on your space and you get to take all their money."

Here he is, pissing and moaning about how nasty and mean Monopoly is, then he caps it off with this doozy:

"It's the Microsoft of our world," Solko says. "If I could wave a magic wand and replace all the copies of Monopoly out there with Settlers, I truly think the world would be a better place."

And here he is on BGG:

Monopoly's dominance in the board gaming world is ridiculous, considering how many games have been released since the 1930s.

Now if I woke up one day to find that the millions of copies Monopoly had transformed themselves into other games, virtually any of the many many many many great games that have been released in the last twenty years, then I could officially look at Monopoly without sneering. As it is, Monopoly represents ignorance, anti-trust, and greed.

So, it's not enough for him that SoC does well and gets some mainstream recognition. Monopoly has to go away, and all the people who enjoy it have to "wake up" and get turned onto these "superior" games. He wants SoC to REPLACE Monopoly, grind it into dust, cackling as all those themed versions are dumped into a Mexican landfill.

If he's not just joking (and I suspect he's not), this isn't just uppity, it's breathtakingly hypocrtical and immature. If this is the kind of cunt that plays SoC, I want no fucking part of it.

Monopoly represents ignorance, anti-trust, and greed.

Greed, as in hundreds of euro games where collecting the most money determines the winner.

Anti-trust, as in AGRICOLA when that one guy thought the other one would pick "bake bread" but took "sheep" instead. God in heaven, it made him cry!

Ignorance, as in PUERTO RICO's depiction of slavery.

TheDukester wrote:

Ryan B. wrote:

Don't forget about the rule (strategy) that no additional houses or hotels may be added, if all 32 houses are already in play.

Good point.

Also when people add money to Free Parking as another house rule, this prolongs the game against it's own expressed object.

Good point

There is plenty to negotiate in Monopoly...ALL game long. But you have to play by the official rules to get a sense of all of that.

Good point.[/color]

And I'll add that Monopoly even has official "quick start" rules that most people are unaware of (deal two properties, which must be purchased, before the first roll). This has been my preferred method of play for years.

I'd be willing to wager that a huge majority of the people who have played have not actually read the rules to the game (it's taught to them, in other words). Along those lines, I'd bet every single thing I own and all my future earnings that more than 99 percent of all people who have ever played Monopoly couldn't possibly care less about things like "endgame" and "mechanics" and "optimal" and "luck-based" and all of the other manufactured nonsense conjured up by an internet hive mind at a glorified database.

They play it; they have a bit of fun. They move on with their lives. I'd bet most of these people even go outside sometimes and interact socially with other people.

Good point. : )

Octavian wrote:

All true, Ryan - and the use of house rules and/or ignorance of actual rules is a big contributing factor towards the perception the game runs too long or involves too much luck. However it does not change anything about my description of the course of the game. It lingers much too long in the closing roll-and-pay phase.

Yea, I see see that. In fact, I have a Monopoly variant that we play, that is insanely popular with my friends. (Yea, Yea... another clown running around with his own variants... I get it.) It turns the game into a bit more like "I'm the Boss"... but with properties!

I'll see if I can't find it and post to this forum.

Ryan

Here is the article I wrote about it for Boardgame News in 2006:

www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgam...ryan_b_monopoly_500/

But I do believe I have made some slight modifications since then.

Ryan B.
"A fun game starts with fun people"


PS But my fear is that when you read I made canapes for our little get together...then all credibility with you guys is lost. (LOL)

But all I can say is that many of the participants were women...so what else can I say?

Ya gotta entertain.

Octavian wrote:

All true, Ryan - and the use of house rules and/or ignorance of actual rules is a big contributing factor towards the perception the game runs too long or involves too much luck. However it does not change anything about my description of the course of the game. It lingers much too long in the closing roll-and-pay phase.

The game only runs about 60 - 90 minutes if you play by the rules. The same as many euros with more decisions, more tension, and more high stakes negotiation.

If interested, here is my review (with pictures)

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/372933

All these people *snort* bitching about a game called Monopoly *chuckle* monopolizing the gaming world! Are we satirizing ourselves now? Monopoly as microsoft? Anti-trust? Politicizing boardgames is about as pointless as dancing about architecture. It doesn't take any secret gnostic knowledge that only certain boardgamers have to decide whether a game you like is worth playing or not. I highly doubt that the amount of Monopoly games sold each year is because of the public's ignorance that other games are in fact made. No one is or has ever been forced to buy Monopoly, people just do. No amount of Euro, or Ameritrash proselytizing is ever going to change someones tastes. Our free time is exactly that, free. Plus corporate greed has come back around to make Monopoly so chock full of "ripped from the headlines" theme that I wouldn't be surprised if more copies of it sell.

mikoyan wrote:

As I've said before, I don't understand the hatred towards Monopoly. It's not the greatest game ever but it's not the worst game either. Nor is it entirely a zero sum game as there is cash infusion from Passing Go and the cards. Now, if you want to talk zero sum games, there's Container (I was amazed at how tight the money was...or maybe it was just my group).

You maybe forgot that when a player sells a container to the island, he gets the top bid and an equal amount from the bank. There is a lot of cash infusion in that game.

ratpfink wrote:

mikoyan wrote:

As I've said before, I don't understand the hatred towards Monopoly. It's not the greatest game ever but it's not the worst game either. Nor is it entirely a zero sum game as there is cash infusion from Passing Go and the cards. Now, if you want to talk zero sum games, there's Container (I was amazed at how tight the money was...or maybe it was just my group).

You maybe forgot that when a player sells a container to the island, he gets the top bid and an equal amount from the bank. There is a lot of cash infusion in that game.

Not when you're playing with tight fisted bastards who really don't want to help their other players...