Ogre...Kickstarter...you in?

If that's the case, all due respect, Mr. Jackson, but how out of your fucking mind are you?

Answer- Munchkin Axe Cop.

The timing on this is really bad. If the funding date was 2 months out I could do it, next month no fucking way. A SJG designer posted on TOS that the game will be available through normal distribution channels so it looks like I'll have to wait for an OLGS to stock it.

Kickstarter, the official P500 site of "Everyone Else".

Mr. Jackson has chosen the company he shall keep.

S.

I am astounded by the amount of money The Geeks have already poured into this project. And Steve didn't even show us any cleavage!

I'll likely get it for my brother as a gift

Msample wrote: With all the copies of Munchkin SJG sells they can't/aren't willing to front the money for this?

Fuck that. I haven't looked on TOS, but this is the sort of thing that will cause people to question the spirit of what Kickstarter was created for.

I doubt it. A while back, in response to Barnes' thought that Kickstarter projects like Omen 2nd ed. and Glory to Rome Black Box were "one-off" efforts, I pointed out that there was now absolutely no incentive for small producers to do anything BUT use Kickstarter. Seems like this is going to be "new normal" for a lot of producers [watch for MMP to move all their non-ASL/Gamers titles to this sort of format--either on Kickstarter or on some part of their own site like Lock-n-Load has done with their "Guffless Preorder System"] I doubt they'll use it for Munchkin: Sex Shop or whatever the next expansion is since they sell a billion units of that friggin' game. But, I really do believe that, until a high-profile publisher who probably didn't *have* to go the Kickstarter route screws the pooch on something after taking people's money a la L2 Design's and JKLM's cock-ups and there's a great big "Kickstarter boardgames must die" fuss on BGG, this is the way things will be for quite a while...

No.

He says in the video that 3,000 copies can be printed using Munchkin. That's a pretty normal-sized print-run for a small board game company, isn't it? I've never used kickstarter but I am not going to commit 100 dollars sight-unseen, (is there, for example, a cancel option with kickstarter like with P500?). He can say "awesome" as many times as he likes but I want to see the game in print before plonking money down.

No accusations, but how is this not a money grab where they can hype it, get as much in the bank ahead of time and then release it. If they *think* 3,000 units is viable than that is how many they should produce. Why should I fit the bill for something unseen, untested, not on the market?? No, thanks, if I buy anything it will be one of the 3,000 that he says will hit the market either way.

Dogmatix wrote: I pointed out that there was now absolutely no incentive for small producers to do anything BUT use Kickstarter. Seems like this is going to be "new normal" for a lot of producers

I think he's right. Kickstarter is like a P500 system subcontractor. I wouldn't be surprised to see it embedded in corporate web sites in a year. I don't know how big a chunk they're taking but they add foot-traffic and manage all the credit card issues. That's a pretty nice service to offer a small company.

S.

Sagrilarus wrote: Kickstarter is like a P500 system subcontractor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a traditional P500, don't you only get charged once the game is produced and ready to ship? That is, P500 is for ensuring there's sufficient interest before investing time, money, and resources. Whereas Kickstarter charges you as soon as the period closes, provided the project has met its minimum. That's a huge difference.

scissors wrote: (is there, for example, a cancel option with kickstarter like with P500?)

You can cancel any time before the project gets funded. Once funding is successful you get billed, and then get to wait with no formal "back out" option.

I really wish there would have been a small-box Ogre/GEV/Shockwave package for a reasonable price. I even like their cardboard minis in this new editions, but there's absolutely no way I'm paying $100 for a massive box version of Ogre. If they could have packed some boards and chits into an Awful Green Things or Munchkin-sized box for closer to a $30 price point I would have been all over that.

I'm not even sure where I would store a box that big.

I agree, the size of the Awful Green Things box would have been perfect.

Bullwinkle wrote:

Sagrilarus wrote: Kickstarter is like a P500 system subcontractor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a traditional P500, don't you only get charged once the game is produced and ready to ship?

Those are the kinds of technicalities that change when you're cutting a deal with a publisher. The core concept is there, and it can offload a lot of work from a company like MMP that has just a few employees and a small office.

I don't Kickstart. Heck, I'm not even a big fan of P500. But to some extent I like Kickstarter's model better than P500, where both sides of the business transaction have clearly defined obligations -- you're billed when it clears the line and the publisher has to print right away as well. A P500 that clears its mark but languishes for another couple of years isn't doing me any good whether it bills me or not. I don't have personal experience with Kickstarter projects but if it pressures the publisher to ship in a reasonable amount of time that's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

By the way the box on this one is a showstopper for me too. Some of us live in small houses.

S.

Msample wrote: With all the copies of Munchkin SJG sells they can't/aren't willing to front the money for this?

Fuck that. I haven't looked on TOS, but this is the sort of thing that will cause people to question the spirit of what Kickstarter was created for.

Yeah, the thing that sours me on the idea is the recent announcement of the millions they made last year, primarily off Munchkin; and now it looks like they're bumming for cash.

This rev of Ogre was finished 3 years ago, and now they want $100 for cardboard, when FFG can give you plastic for the same price.

It's his company, and he can do whatever he wants. If I was in his shoes, I might be too timid to risk my own cash on a big project. But who knows. I do think this cheapens his brand.

Well, could be ol' Stevieboy is having tax problems again...

SGT Dave wrote:

Msample wrote:
I do think this cheapens his brand.

Didn't that already happen after printing millions of copies of Munchkin?