Ogre...Kickstarter...you in?

I joined at the $1,000,000 level.

On the day of the game's release, I will be handed a Presidential pardon and a fully functional Ogre. I can then, without fear of legal reprisal, drive my Ogre across the eastern seaboard and kill as many people a I want. Sweet!

If my tracking system gets jittery, I may inadvertently stray from my path and take out some folks in the Southern states. Not my fault, and completely understandable.

I think there would be one key reason for a company like MMP to choose to NOT use Kickstarter - the above mentioned point of them being obligated to print as soon as the funding goal is reached. Depending on what else they have in the production que, they may not be ready to do this. People may hate them for it, but one advantage of printing when they want as opposed to when a game hits a number is that, along as they continue to charge only upon shipping, they minimize the PR nightmares that companies like L2 bring upon themselves. And as more games get funded via Kickstarter and then take a long time to deliver ( like Glory to Rome ) I think this will dampen some people's enthusiasm to fund future projects.

If this is going to be available in regular distribution, then SJ can kiss my ass on Kickstarter. I'm not going to loan him $100 to get the game printed on a fluid, unknown timeline that could extend into 2013.

I was ready to jump, but then I remembered my distate for Kickstarter...professionally run, operated, and managed businesses DO NOT "crowd source" their funding. They put money on the line and if they deliver a quality, saleable product then they make a profit. By putting your money up front, there's no real incentive for them to give you value for your money. Not like SJ has done that in years anyway.

I'm still waiting on the Glory to Rome black box, the one project I've "backed". No sign of that game ever coming out. They were very up front about the delays at first, now there's hardly anything out of those guys. Because they've likely gotten in over their heads either financially or logistically and are treading water, trying to figure out how to appease all the people that loaned them money to do this.

I'm still waiting on the Glory to Rome black box, the one project I've "backed". No sign of that game ever coming out. They were very up front about the delays at first, now there's hardly anything out of those guys. Because they've likely gotten in over their heads either financially or logistically and are treading water, trying to figure out how to appease all the people that loaned them money to do this

That's a shame sorry to hear that. I thought about starting a Kickstarter project to Barnes and Weeks to BGG Con to do a seminar on Ameritrash and discuss the implications of the Great War of 2006.

If we can get $50k, we could add a stretch goal- a workshop entitled "How to Make Board Gamers Cry Over the Internet".

Steve Weeks wrote:

I'm still waiting on the Glory to Rome black box, the one project I've "backed". No sign of that game ever coming out. They were very up front about the delays at first, now there's hardly anything out of those guys. Because they've likely gotten in over their heads either financially or logistically and are treading water, trying to figure out how to appease all the people that loaned them money to do this

That's a shame sorry to hear that. I thought about starting a Kickstarter project to Barnes and Weeks to BGG Con to do a seminar on Ameritrash and discuss the implications of the Great War of 2006.

Make it happen for 2013. I am planning on maybe attending.

Does anyone else think it's madness to even be talking about a $100 version of Ogre? I mean, that's like creating a $100 version of a Summoner Wars base-set.

ubarose wrote: I recently was talking to a friend who works for a group that does IOS game development. They are talking about using Kickstarter for advertisement and market research. The money raised is just a bonus. The can put games up, see what flies and what doesn't. See what gets picked up by game news outlets and creates buzz and what doesn't.

I expect, that for established board game companies it can serve the same purpose, plus they get a better idea of first run numbers.

That's brilliant. It's a hell of a way to measure demand, that's for sure.

I've been thinking lately of having a game design I made be an Ipad game. The format is perfect. I've got the artist lined up and playtesting has been done. Now I just need to get a coder or go back to school and learn it myself.

Things have changed, apparently, since I was coding COBOL, QuickBASIC, and Pascal....

$100 is an awful lot for what you get. SJG is not some boutique publisher struggling for funds. In terms of value for money it is probably one of the poorest deals you can get. It looks like a shameless attempt to rip off nostalgic nerds. I see no other reason to release it as an overblown 100$ massive box for what is essentially a very simplistic game. Mounted maps and counters can be done much cheaper as proved by numerous smaller publishers. The lame "3D" miniatures look like toy planes I could buy when I was a kid for a couple of bucks and they were much bigger and actually able to fly. So why the hell is it so expensive? As much as I would like to play it I can't justify spending so much money when there are better (and better looking) games around.

Msample wrote: I think there would be one key reason for a company like MMP to choose to NOT use Kickstarter - the above mentioned point of them being obligated to print as soon as the funding goal is reached. Depending on what else they have in the production que, they may not be ready to do this. People may hate them for it, but one advantage of printing when they want as opposed to when a game hits a number is that, along as they continue to charge only upon shipping, they minimize the PR nightmares that companies like L2 bring upon themselves. And as more games get funded via Kickstarter and then take a long time to deliver ( like Glory to Rome ) I think this will dampen some people's enthusiasm to fund future projects.

It would be hard to resist kickstarting "Up Front"

MSample: You're dead on with why MMP *shouldn't* do it, but I wonder if that will be enough to prevent them from taking the plunge. The one I'm waiting on to do this is actually L2--I can actually see it making its minimum number because there always seem to be folks who are willing to gamble.

Ultimately it's the "obligated" part where this system will ultimately collapse under its own weight. GMT and MMP don't charge until the game is printed--even if the boat from China is delayed or the game sits in Customs for 4 months, it actually exists and you WILL receive it at some point. Kickstarter, on the other hand, DOES NOT truly obligate the publisher, only the backer. There are already non-boardgame projects with horror stories of non-production after payment and I've *not* (as of yet) seen a lot of recourse for backers to see their money again if the publisher cuts and runs. They can simply keep publishing "updates" periodically and drag things out until the end of time (think HMS/GRD's ongoing saga with the publication of "Total War", the Europa: Fire in the East reboot--if you track their website, the game has been "at the printers" in one way or another since 2009). This is no different than what JKLM did with the 1860 [or 1861] reprint or what L2 Design did with Grand Fleet and the Rommel's War reprint--fortunately, everyone was made whole there, but it could have easily gone the other way and that money was just gone.

I really do believe that it's only a matter of time until a boardgame project goes the same route. At that point, we may actually have a means to measure the impact of BGG, CSW, and F:AT on the boardgame market because the shitstorm it stirs up will undoubtedly be substantial and, IMO, the impact will ripple out across other high profile Kickstarter boardgame projects.

San Il Defanso wrote:

Steve Weeks wrote:

I'm still waiting on the Glory to Rome black box, the one project I've "backed". No sign of that game ever coming out. They were very up front about the delays at first, now there's hardly anything out of those guys. Because they've likely gotten in over their heads either financially or logistically and are treading water, trying to figure out how to appease all the people that loaned them money to do this

That's a shame sorry to hear that. I thought about starting a Kickstarter project to Barnes and Weeks to BGG Con to do a seminar on Ameritrash and discuss the implications of the Great War of 2006.

Make it happen for 2013. I am planning on maybe attending.

Does anyone else think it's madness to even be talking about a $100 version of Ogre? I mean, that's like creating a $100 version of a Summoner Wars base-set.

I'm a huge fan of the Ogre/GEV games and will be buying this--and, if this actually does include the GEV/Shockwave stuff , probably 2 copies at that since I really like to play really big GEV (i.e., "Ogre-free") scenarios and I do have the table space for something this size. The quality of the production is in the same vein as Academy Games' tactical WWII series [the name of which escapes me at the moment] with the 1" counters, which are $75-$85 games. That last $25 is undoubtedly SJG's "nostalgia surtax."

I would Kickstart this at a ridiculous level if it included things like scaled-up maps that came with a couple of the expansions that weren't going to be available for sale a week later through SJG's Warehouse23 store (Shockwave had a map, and I think there were some new ones in a later map pack. I actually have maps from other publishers in my set because the scale was dead on and they were a fun change of pace, so I'm not sure where all these came from. At least one is from Avalanche Press' Winter War.). I'll probably end up "backing" this at the lowest level to buy a couple of sets of dice, but there's no point for the game when I can undoubtedly pick up sets from Coolstuff at a huge discount...

Edit: finishing off the thought about L2...

Dogmatix wrote: The one I'm waiting on to do this is actually L2--I can actually see it making its minimum number because.

I think L2 has so poisoned the well of potential backers he'd have a hard time.

The fact that Ogre will eventually be made available at retail will probably cause some people to hold off and get it via mail order at a discount. Unless of course there are 3000 backers up front.

Well, I'd gladly subscribe, but those yankee rednecks need to get their fucking nose out of their navels and realise the world doesn't end on US coasts before that ever happens.
Seesh... no deliveries outside US... I'm pissed.

Hey now...The $1,977 pledge level will ship anywhere!
Watching this thing is like watching a person with a license to print money. At my count he's got around 675 copies spoken for right now just a day or so in.

Turns out that this box *is* supposed to include GEV/Shockwave, which is considerably more "game" than just the Ogre base set.

ehanuise wrote: Well, I'd gladly subscribe, but those yankee rednecks need to get their fucking nose out of their navels and realise the world doesn't end on US coasts before that ever happens.
Seesh... no deliveries outside US... I'm pissed.

A box that size, regardless of weight, will probably cost a minimum of $40 to *Canada*; I can't imagine international shipping being anything under than $50, and I've found few boardgame folks on Kickstarter that have *any idea* how to minimize international shipping costs. The guy doing Gunship: First Strike has made a real effort at it but it takes a lot of work for anyone who doesn't have a bit of experience with it or some sort of bulk discount. You might want to ping SJG and find out if they've got some sort of international distributor picking up copies though.


Edit: Wow. Scratch my comments about "small producers" and insert "any game company" in its place. I didn't realize Queen Games was now Kickstarting games: www.kickstarter.com/projects/1016374822/...an-temple?ref=thanks

If they're doing this, I wonder how long it will be before FFG decides to go this route.