Let's Talk DUNGEON CRAWLERS

In regards to the lack of conversion kit support for RtL...yeah it sucks. However, looking at it from the publisher's perspective they probably no longer want to support anything to do with the first edition of the game. When 2.0 launched they released the conversion kit to toss a bone to all the people out there who were avid fans of the original game. Since then they've gone to great lengths to upgrade and port most of the heroes and monsters from 1st edition with their "Heroes and Monsters" collections. So yeah at this point they want folks to buy the new stuff. Again it sort of blows, but even the most friendly companies are going to eventually cut away support of older editions completely. Frankly, I'm shocked FFG even offered the conversion kit in the first place.

I think Columbob is right though...I think you can sort of trick the app into thinking you have this stuff by selecting the correct pack. Not sure if it will be 100% effective, but it can't hurt to press a button and give it a whirl.

Though not a pure miniature based dungeon crawler, I ended up getting Warhammer Quest: Adventure Card Game (WHQACG) since I'm going off to scout summer camp staff for 6 weeks. I figured it would mimic a good portable dungeon crawler experience that's quick to play, easy to setup, and easy to take down.

I hope that FFG comes up with some expansions for WHQACG. This one seems ripe for those print-on-demand card packs like FFG did for Space Hulk: Death Angel--the Card Game (another game which I also like). I'd like to see some Chaos warriors.

There's also a talented fan who's generating some pretty cool print-n-play WHQACG quests and campaigns, monsters etc:

crusadersgolf.co.uk/board-games/warhamme...adventure-card-game/

Recent discussion here has me also thinking about the DDAS games again. Man, Castle Ravenloft is such a sweet title. So easy to play and a lot of bang for the buck.

I owned the first three titles on two occasions, and the first time I painted up my Ravenloft (bad photos below). I would mix and match the villains to make a little more sense, but never did the 'all in' games. I did create a fun campaign system for it. Not sure why I sold it all off. Maybe because it got to be too much? I dunno, but I don't recall ever having a bad time with any of them and always up for a game.



(to make up for that bad photo, here's a sweet one of one of my Mordheim warbands taking up a position on a hill)

Hex Sinister wrote: Thunderstone is a poster child for multiplayer solo. You can play it in complete silence if you like. And it's about as far from a dungeon crawl as you can get. I won't say it's a terrible game but it's more like a foundation of another game that could have been a whole lot better.

I'll dissent. My wife and I really enjoy Thunderstone (Advance) and have played it about twenty times. It is, first and foremost, a deck-builder, and it could be played in silence, but we don't play that way, and there's a decent level-up feeling for us as level-0 heroes get weeded out or leveled up and new heroes are acquired. The deck-draw element of course means that card hands are semi-random, but that's sort of like saying that Dominion lacks any strategy because it involves cards. The biggest obstacle to giving TS a try at this point is that everything's out of print for both series, AEG first kind of botched Advance (felt more like a reboot to many than an evolution), then lost interest in it (stopped even listing new products on their webpage!), then stopped printing it (though there are always some rumors that it'll come back). Towers of Ruin, the first of the base sets (and there are, like three and a half base sets, which was part of the problem with the line), has been OOP for a long time, and people ask crazy prices for it. Most everything else came out or seemed to come out in low quantities, and I'm not even sure the last expansion was even announced by AEG.

For years I thought I hated deck-building games, but it turned out I really just hated Dominion. For two reasons, mostly: (1) the terrible theme and (2) all cards are available for purchase at all times, which leads to near-perfect strategies that can be identified by experienced players. Having a random subset of cards available for purchase is much more fun.

My favorite deck-builder right now is the DC deck-building game (pick a base set) with any of the co-op Crisis expansions. They're screwed up in certain ways (e.g., the 1st Crisis expansion is awful with more than 3 players, and sometimes more than 2 players), but I really enjoy them. They're pretty long, but that doesn't bother me.

The latest DC expansion, Watchmen, even introduces a many-against-one mechanic. Haven't tried it yet, but it seems interesting.

The strictly 2-player DC Rivals game is a great intro to the system (it's like $13), and it even fixes many of the problems with the multi-player edition. Too bad the rivals line petered out after the initial Batman/Joker release.

Anyway, this it totally off-topic. But there you go.

I have some gift certificates burning a hole and I'm torn between getting 3 D&DAS games or $100 of Dungeon Saga stuff. If the DS orks were out it would be easier to choose.

I wish I could advise you, but I've yet to play DS.

My gut tells me that the DDAS games are ready to go out of the box. They're definitely very user friendly.

DS may require more tinkering on your part, but if you're interested in building adventures or playing a GM role then it may be the more rewarding one.

In other words, one will likely get played more frequently while the other allows for more 'hobbying', as it were, which to me is also quality 'game time'.

bendgar wrote: I have some gift certificates burning a hole and I'm torn between getting 3 D&DAS games or $100 of Dungeon Saga stuff. If the DS orks were out it would be easier to choose.

I would imagine 3 D&D AS games for $100 is the better "deal."
As in; the franchise is beloved, the games are accessible, the minis have no fuss. And, you get a shit ton of stuff in those DDAS boxes.

I've only played Ravenloft a handful of times, but I was left with a "meh." And this from a guy who spent his teen years reading every-god-damn-Ravenloft paperback in print. After the graphic stylings of the DDAS tiles in boxes 2, 3, and 4 - the vanilla treatment of Ravenloft pisses me off even more. Pure co-op is awesome in theory, but I find it all a bit repetitive. YMMV.

I've only played a handful of DS. Essentially, it's an enhanced "love letter" to HeroQuest. Mr. W is correct insofar as DS requiring a bit more "hobby" time. The minis are color coded (like DDAS), but some hot water baths may be required to straighten the SKELETAL skeletons. The tiles don't jigsaw together like DDAS, but instead require plastic clips. I just toss 'em on a black sheet of shelf liner. IMO - all tiles suck (Space Hulk too). And while a DS expansion does offer pure solo play - I've yet to experiment with it. I suspect DS is best geared for an one vs. many experience (1 overlord and 2 players controlling 2 heroes each seems to be the sweet spot).

FWIW - I got all the DS expansions as a KS backer. They'll eventually make it to retail, but I'm looking at the Orcs as I type. They look pretty rad.

Ultimately, I bet you can't go wrong with either. Tell us whatever you end up playing!

drewcula wrote: I've only played Ravenloft a handful of times, but I was left with a "meh." And this from a guy who spent his teen years reading every-god-damn-Ravenloft paperback in print. After the graphic stylings of the DDAS tiles in boxes 2, 3, and 4 - the vanilla treatment of Ravenloft pisses me off even more. Pure co-op is awesome in theory, but I find it all a bit repetitive. YMMV.

Fucking Ravenloft. They practically had my money the second they put together a sentence containing both "Ravenloft" and "boardgame." But I got a really bad feeling about it when I saw the components. Here are the things that made the original Ravenloft adventure so amazing that it spun off into an entire product line for D&D:

+ amazing semi-3D maps
+ gothic horror atmosphere
+ a cool villain
+ a strong setup for a story
+ appealing cover art

And this is what we got with the Ravenloft boardgame:

- boring map tiles (one BGG'er described the map tiles as looking like rooms in warehouse for a wall factory)
- average dungeon crawl atmosphere
- little to distinguish one monster from another
- bland gameplay
- crappy cover art

Yeah, I know that some people own and enjoy playing Ravenloft, and they will post here to tell me so. That's because they drank the KoolAid, all of it, and now they want other people to drink the KoolAid.

bendgar wrote: I have some gift certificates burning a hole and I'm torn between getting 3 D&DAS games or $100 of Dungeon Saga stuff. If the DS orks were out it would be easier to choose.

I happen to own all of the D&DAS games, but in retrospect it wasn't necessary. I haven't completed the full set of scenarios in the first release (Ravenloft), let alone the following two sequels. The first three D&D games are perfect for one-off sessions when your gaming buddies are in a light and silly dungeon mood. Nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't think of asking anyone in my gaming group to complete a pseudo-campaign of D&D games (nothing carries over from scenario to scenario anyway), as they'd get very samey very quickly. You'd experience rapid-fire burnout in just a few weeks. Playing a D&DAS scenario once every 2-3 months is about right for me, and I usually go longer than that without playing. Often much longer.

How about one D&DAS game and lots of other cool stuff? Welcome to the Dungeon is great filler (though not a dungeoncrawler). And there's always Space Cadets: Away Missions...

If you have enough gift certificates to get in range of WHQST, that is the right answer. Yes, even over three D&DAS boxes. I'm seeing prices in the $95-$100 range, which is a really good deal for it.

No, you wouldn't get as much STUFF, but you might be getting a better game all around.

MB- How hard are the minis to put together? My mini assembly experience is limited to Space Hulk 3rd Ed.

Please don't listen to Barnes just because he has more posts than I do. He's likely drunk on miniature fumes. (If you're imagining tiny fumes, that's fine, but I was thinking of smelly waves of delirium emanating from recently un-sprued GW minis.)

Just remember that if you're buying into WHQST you're also buying into $200 of expansions once the base set has played itself out. No idea how long that will take, but I'll be optimistic and say 18 months.

Ten sawbucks buys a lot of stuff! Here's a pretty good $100 deal:

Warhammer Quest: Adventure Card game (w/ expansions you still won't approach the original $100 for WHQST)
Welcome to the Dungeon
Castle Ravenloft
DC Deckbuilding: Rivals
Six pack of decent beer (your choice!)
Hug from a friend (free!)

Anyway, it's your cash. Good luck...

Also, what's this stupid shit I'm hearing about cards not being included in the expansions? That's ridiculous.

They're printed in the rulebook, you just have to copy them. Or you can use the app, they're all in that. I guess it is a cost cutting/cheapskate maneuver. But I don't think it's a big deal. I've seen it more and more where things like that (even rulebooks) aren't in the package.

The miniatures are pretty easy to put together, really. I was kind of worried about it being ten years out from putting together anything other than the SH push-together ones. But the molds are REALLY good, and with just a couple of exceptions they "key fit" just right. There were just a couple of reeeeeaaaally thin surfaces that required holding/blowing for a minute or two. The heroes and the "boss" monsters were the most complex with many parts. But most of the others are 2-4 parts.

Bought some nippers/sidecutters at Michaels for $4 (don't by the GW ones, seriously) and some Testors plastic glue. Used a hobby knife to scrape off mold lines/sprue pieces, which were very few. Worked great.