"Joe and Bob"

hancock.tom wrote:

That guy is really full of shit. Lawyers think the rules are too hard? Give me a break. I bet your accountant friends don't like Lost Cities because there is too much math in the scoring too.

He never even considers that maybe he isn't giving chess, risk, and scrabble their due? That perhaps the reason they are so popular is that they are better, deeper, meatier games than TTR, Carc, and SoCatan?

I bet "Joe and Bob" play Axis and Allies and other games but don't invite Tom Rosen because they know he would just try to convince them how much better Alhambra is.

I can't speak for other accountants, but I loathe the idea of doing math for "fun." If I'm not getting paid to do math, then I would rather do something actually fun. I bet those attorneys don't feel like learning more rules because they spend the entire work day wrestling with rules.

What is so wrong with scrabble anyway? It has some of the aspects that are so popular with those games of theirs. You've got tile laying. Strategic placement of stuff to block your opponents. There is that chance that you will get Q, X and J but a good player can make some serious hay with those, especially if they can get them on the Triple Letter Score. Oh I know...there isn't an auction mechanic for getting the letters.....

Now Risk I can sort of understand. First of all it has player elimination. Player's who do poorly don't last long in the game. There is no mechanism in the game that strings them along even though they really don't have a chance. Then there's those infernal dice. then there are the outside of game aspects (negotiation, diplomacy, etc.) that really drive Europlayers nuts. Zat's not in zee Rules! But if Risk is such a random dice fest, why is it that certain players consistently win?

mikoyan wrote:

What is so wrong with scrabble anyway? It has some of the aspects that are so popular with those games of theirs. You've got tile laying. Strategic placement of stuff to block your opponents. There is that chance that you will get Q, X and J but a good player can make some serious hay with those, especially if they can get them on the Triple Letter Score. Oh I know...there isn't an auction mechanic for getting the letters.....

They don't like games where you can gain advantage by memorizing stuff. Chess is out because you can memorize openings or endgames. Scrabble is out because you can memorize obscure words.

If I had a board game that sold millions of copies for decades, I wouldn't look to be changing the status quo either. Hasbro is not evil, they're as American as baseball and apple pie. Whereas Germans, like their games, are a robotic and soulless people. More concerned with things running elegantly per a calculated method than allowing the chaos of people having fun. If Octoberfest wasn't properly scheduled every year they'd probably never party in Germany.

Mad Dog wrote:

If I had a board game that sold millions of copies for decades, I wouldn't look to be changing the status quo either. Hasbro is not evil, they're as American as baseball and apple pie. Whereas Germans, like their games, are a robotic and soulless people. More concerned with things running elegantly per a calculated method than allowing the chaos of people having fun. If Octoberfest wasn't properly scheduled every year they'd probably never party in Germany.

Maybe you should be commiserating with Clearclaw about his "negros."

Juniper wrote:

mikoyan wrote:

What is so wrong with scrabble anyway? It has some of the aspects that are so popular with those games of theirs. You've got tile laying. Strategic placement of stuff to block your opponents. There is that chance that you will get Q, X and J but a good player can make some serious hay with those, especially if they can get them on the Triple Letter Score. Oh I know...there isn't an auction mechanic for getting the letters.....

They don't like games where you can gain advantage by memorizing stuff. Chess is out because you can memorize openings or endgames. Scrabble is out because you can memorize obscure words.

And you can't memorize various openings to Puerto Rico or Caylus? At least Agricola has the randomizing of the actions (somewhat).

You know, I learned at a very young age that some people just don't want to play your stupid games thank you very much. I strong-armed my sister into playing all sorts of stuff with me, generally against her will. I guess Tom Rosen never figured that out. As columnists go, he seems to have a pretty tenuous grasp on what non-gamers (or as I call them, real people) like to play.

Probably about the most common reply non-hobby gamers have to hobby games is "That looks complicated." My mother-in-law said this about Dominion when she watched us playing it. It's definitely not the case, and this is a woman who has enjoyed plenty of other games of comparable weight, but I guess a lot of hobby games just LOOK intimidating.

Juniper wrote:

Maybe you should be commiserating with Clearclaw about his "negros."

Except Clearclaw probably means the stuff he writes. I just like to troll zee Germans.

The funny thing is that before I read Clearclaw's academic diarrhea, I kind of wrote something similar in this week's Cracked LCD...how having more games available sometimes draws you away from the core values of the games you've loved for a long time. But I didn't dress it up, and it's about OGRE ferchrissakes.

"Creamed hamburger" is likely some kind of slop, probably hamburger meat in gravy or something like that. Or maybe it's what reasonable people call "Country fried steak" or "Salisbury steak". Of course, he's the kind of guy that probably insists on calling potato chips "crisps" even though he isn't English.

Jesus...

Anyway, back to games...when I hear about these gamers trying to ply "These Games of Ours" on others it just makes me sick...they report back to sympathetic ears about how they ran into all these problems and Hasbro and familiar board games are held to blame. It's a lot like saying that mainstream Americans don't listen to Merzbow because the mean old major record labels won't put it on the radio.

I could really give fuck all what people play as long as they're enjoying it on their own terms. If somebody is interested, yeah, I'll show them some hobby games. But this whole "conversion" thing makes me want to throw up.

I also think it's funny that the Eurogamers were the ones whining "but they're all just games" when the AT movement fired up...yet these are people who stratify games and gamers along rigorous lines way more than anyone here ever has.

Here's another statement from the comments:

My only ‘luck’ with converting the masses has been my lunch time card playing group.

Note that the author wrapped luck in inverted commas instead of "converting the masses".

Mad Dog wrote:

If Octoberfest wasn't properly scheduled every year they'd probably never party in Germany.

Please don't confuse Bavarians with Prussians.

JC wrote:

Some months back I realised with some surprise that the 18xx are comfort games for me. They are the gaming equivalent of creamed hamburger and mashed potatoes, of Sloppy Joes, of Kielbasa and spiced red cabbage, of salty Dutch licorice .

Now I know why I don't like train games!

The moment you imagine Clearclaw's writings were meant to be humorous (even if they're really not), you'll lead a better life, better than your average dude who reads online discussions about board gaming.

Schweig! wrote:

The moment you imagine Clearclaw's writings were meant to be humorous (even if they're really not), you'll lead a better life, better than your average dude who reads online discussions about board gaming.

What about us poor schmucks who write online discussions about boardgames?

I dunno. Defending Clearclaw and now being rubbished by Schweig! There's no hope left for me.

They are the gaming equivalent of creamed hamburger and mashed potatoes, of Sloppy Joes, of Kielbasa and spiced red cabbage, of salty Dutch licorice.

Clearclaw's post makes more sense if you just assume that he's talking about rough trade , here. Maybe that's why there's so much interest in converting the uninitiated.

This guy thinks in the Utopian society everyone would play Euro games...

Imagine there's no Scrabble
It's easy if you try
No player elimination
Only fast play times
Imagine all the people
Playing El Grande...

Part of a conversation with two cow-workers a few minutes ago.


Chick: "Who'd want to move to Minnesota?"

Me: "I'd move to Minnesota if I could work for Fantasy Flight"

Jackass: "Yeah, me too."

Chick: "What's Fantasy Flight?"

Jackass: "They're a company that makes board games."

Chick: "Stuff like Monopoly?"

Me: "Yeah, basically."


Then the conversation moved off in a different direction. I didn't attempt to convert her or preach at all about these games of ours. I'm going to gamer hell, aren't I?

Michael Barnes wrote:

"Creamed hamburger" is likely some kind of slop, probably hamburger meat in gravy or something like that. Or maybe it's what reasonable people call "Country fried steak" or "Salisbury steak".

I guess he likes cream with his hamburger. And with cream he probably means mayonnaise. Disgusting isn't it? But also very funny. Just like comparing 18xx to licorice. That Clearclaw is a jester. Ha ha.

MattDP wrote:

What about us poor schmucks who write online discussions about boardgames?

I dunno. Defending Clearclaw and now being rubbished by Schweig! There's no hope left for me.

I didn't mean to rubbish you.

I'm just saying that you shouldn't take whatever Clearclaw writes serious. That way reading collected wisdoms online will be more pleasurable.


Mad Dog wrote:

Part of a conversation with two cow-workers a few minutes ago.


Chick: "Who'd want to move to Minnesota?"

Me: "I'd move to Minnesota if I could work for Fantasy Flight"

Jackass: "Yeah, me too."

Chick: "What's Fantasy Flight?"

Jackass: "They're a company that makes board games."

Chick: "Stuff like Monopoly?"

Me: "Yeah, basically."


Then the conversation moved off in a different direction. I didn't attempt to convert her or preach at all about these games of ours. I'm going to gamer hell, aren't I?

A job well done.

Now your image as the "cool colleague with the board games" has probably hardened a little, which every eurogamer strives to be.